# Charleston, SC church shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 18, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823 "2015-06-18T04:15:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/201 "2015-06-19T19:21:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/south-carolina-governor-urges-death-penalty-charges-in-church-slayings/2015/06/19/3c039722-1678-11e5-9ddc-e3353542100c\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/south-carolina-governor-urges-death-penalty-charges-in-church-slayings/2015/06/19/3c039722-1678-11e5-9ddc-e3353542100c_story.html) > > Witnesses told authorities they never saw the man pull out the gun. Instead, they saw him start shooting, up close, targeting each victim with precision. The man took the time to reload the handgun “several times,” officials said. > > I always wonder about this kind of stuff. One guy, a dozen people in the room, taking time to reload _several times_, shooting methodically, and no one rushes him to try to take the gun away/incapacitate him/etc? Yes, there were mostly women there, but still - is in the shock/disbelief that makes people basically wait to get shot? Who knows what was happening inside the room. For all we know, several people did try to rush him and were killed. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/202 "2015-06-19T19:21:55Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > To me, this sad affair is a lot like the Connecticut school shootings-Obama makes a speech, will probably appoint a commission (to study it), and the whole thing will be forgotten…unless there is political capital to be made off it. > Our cynical politicians have no answers, they just talk a lot. So, Ralph, what would you have have our politicians do about this? What did GWB and other prior presidents do after shootings occurred during their times in office? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/203 "2015-06-19T19:23:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You would think they would have all beat him to death with chairs. It probably doesn’t take long to change magazines, but a room full of Baptists would have beaten him up, at least. No need for snark. What I am amazed at is not even a hint of resistance (at least none reported). And it’s not just this case. The Breivik massacre: > **[Breivik describes hunting down panicked teens](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/breivik-describes-hunting-down-panicked-teens/)** > > Victims' families sob as gunman spares no details explaining how island massacre unfolded “Some of them are completely paralyzed. They cannot run. They stand totally still. This is something they never show on TV,” Breivik said. “It was very strange.” … Some teenagers were frozen in panic, unable to move even when Breivik ran out of ammunition. He changed clips. They didn’t move. He shot them in the head. The Columbine massacre - AFAIR, no one tried to resist the two gunmen. etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/204 "2015-06-19T19:24:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who knows what was happening inside the room. For all we know, several people did try to rush him and were killed. There are witnesses, and they do not report anyone trying to resist. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/205 "2015-06-19T19:32:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There are witnesses, and they do not report anyone trying to resist. It’s entirely possible, but I have not heard or read any in-depth, step-by-step witness accounts (only snippets and general accounts). According to [Wikipedia’s article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting#Details), one younger congregant (a young man) tried to protect an older woman but they were both killed. I’ll note that only 13 people were present, 9 were killed, and at least two probably saved their own lives by feigning death. This early we often don’t have a detailed, minute-by-minute picture. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/206 "2015-06-19T19:44:21Z")
[Timely Cracked.com article on surviving a double homicide](http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1742-6-awful-things-i-learned-surviving-double-homicide.html) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/207 "2015-06-19T19:47:41Z")
The only people who know exactly what they would do when a mad man starts shooting at them are people who have had mad men shooting at them. You can speculate all you want about how you’ll roundhouse him like Swayze when he stops to reload, but you have no idea what sort of freezing up and/or pants-shitting you might do. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/208 "2015-06-19T19:58:53Z")
_Au contraire_: I know exactly what sort of pants-shitting I would do: all of it. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/209 "2015-06-19T20:12:22Z")
A news article I read this morning said the father did not buy the gun, he provided the money and the killer bought the gun himself. I guess even if you’ve been indicted for felony drug possession in South Carolina, you can still buy a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/210 "2015-06-19T20:30:01Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > A news article I read this morning said the father did not buy the gun, he provided the money and the killer bought the gun himself. > I guess even if you’ve been indicted for felony drug possession in South Carolina, you can still buy a gun. According to this: > **[Possession of a Controlled Substance in South Carolina](https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/drug-charges/south-carolina-drug-possession-laws)** > > Drug possession can result in misdemeanor or felony penalties in S.C. Most repeat drug offenders will face felony charges. in SC the crime he was indicted for is a misdemeanor, not a felony, and carries the penalty of a fine of up to $1,000, up to six months in jail, or both. Which means that under federal law he’d have been still allowed to purchase firearms. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/211 "2015-06-19T20:44:02Z")
Well [this](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/06/18/the-legal-loophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/)says it’s a felony charge, but it also says that his father gave him the gun, which contradicts the earlier article I read. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/212 "2015-06-19T20:47:01Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Well [this](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/06/18/the-legal-loophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/)says it’s a felony charge, but it also says that his father gave him the gun, which contradicts the earlier article I read. That is a news article. The site I gave you is a legal web site that documents what SC laws are. News sites quite often get things wrong. First offenses are misdemeanors. Second offenses may be felonies, but not for the drug (which is Schedule III) that he was caught with. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/213 "2015-06-19T20:56:12Z")
Here is an article from AP where the reporter apparently bothered to research the facts: > **[Dylann Roof Has a Criminal Record](https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2015/06/19/church-shooting-suspect-previously-arrested-on-drug-charge)** > > Church shooting suspect previously arrested on drug charge after behaving erratically at mall. According to the report, the officer searched him and found strips of suboxone — a drug that is typically used to treat addiction to heroin and other opiates but can itself be used to get high. At first, Roof said they were Listerine strips. When pressed, he admitted they were suboxone and said he had gotten them from a friend and did not have a prescription for them, the report said. Roof was arrested on a **misdemeanor drug possession charge** , and his Hyundai, the same car he was arrested in after the church shooting, was towed from the parking lot. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/214 "2015-06-19T20:58:05Z")
To both sides: I don’t think we really need to worry too much about whether he could legally buy the gun right now. All that does it bend the story to fit a narrative it doesn’t need yet. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/215 "2015-06-19T21:31:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/south-carolina-governor-urges-death-penalty-charges-in-church-slayings/2015/06/19/3c039722-1678-11e5-9ddc-e3353542100c\_story.htmlI](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/south-carolina-governor-urges-death-penalty-charges-in-church-slayings/2015/06/19/3c039722-1678-11e5-9ddc-e3353542100c_story.htmlI) always wonder about this kind of stuff. One guy, a dozen people in the room, taking time to reload _several times_, shooting methodically, and no one rushes him to try to take the gun away/incapacitate him/etc? Have you looked at the ages of the victims? Only one of them was under 40, and he died trying to shield his aunt. I don’t think a 54-year-old female librarian has much of a chance rushing a healthy 21-year-old shooter. One of victims was almost 90. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/216 "2015-06-19T22:02:34Z")
Well at least the honoured Confederate battle flag still stands proud, despite these two racist warriors being confined. > [@](#): > > Roof was arrested in North Carolina after an alert motorist recognized him, and returned in shackles to a county jail where he was being [held next to the cell](http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/no-room-for-hate-as-families-of-charleston-9-confront-shooting-suspect-at-hearing-1.2430139) of Michael Slager, the white former police officer charged with fatally shooting black motorist Walter Scott in neighbouring North Charleston. What a pathetic excuse for a society. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/217 "2015-06-19T22:04:40Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Have you looked at the ages of the victims? Only one of them was under 40, and he died trying to shield his aunt. I don’t think a 54-year-old female librarian has much of a chance rushing a healthy 21-year-old shooter. Yes, she had a lot better chance waiting to be shot, didn’t she? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/218 "2015-06-19T22:09:28Z")
Guns, god and racism. Truly disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/219 "2015-06-19T22:54:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, she had a lot better chance waiting to be shot, didn’t she? This presumes that there are only two choices in a situation like this: sit passively and wait to die, or charge the attacker. But the real world is far more chaotic. Do you play dead? Do you attack? Do you call for help? Do you run? Do you dive for cover? Do you pick up something to use as a weapon? Do you try to help someone who is wounded? Do you try to shield someone else with your body? Do you try to talk the shooter down? Do you try to distract him? Are there other shooters? Is he intending to shoot everyone? Or will he flee after he shoots his intended target? Different situations call for different tactics. Realistically, even a young man doesn’t stand much chance of rushing someone with a ready gun. So if you’re going to rush him you need to do it as a group. But you don’t have time to organize anything. When he stops to reload, you only have a few seconds to lunge for him before he starts shooting again. There’s not even enough time to shout “He’s reloading! Get him!” Or if you do shout it, how many other people in the room will register what you’ve said and be able to act on it before the shooting resumes? Yes, if a group of unarmed people has time to properly assess the situation and work out a few tactics, they should be able to rush a lone shooter and overpower him. (Look at what the passengers of flight 93 were able to do when they had time to regroup and get their wits together.) But a group of people caught totally off guard, some of them elderly, some of them cut down in the first volley … it’s completely unrealistic to expect them to mount a coordinated defense. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/220 "2015-06-19T23:07:09Z")
I have no idea what I would do in a shooting. Do any of you? How does anyone even get to say how people should have reacted? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823.md?page=12)