# Charleston, SC church shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 18, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823 "2015-06-18T04:15:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/321 "2015-06-23T15:44:45Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > At least it’s confirmed that S.C. is majority racist. Perhaps they are merely stubborn. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/322 "2015-06-23T16:14:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Honking is such a precise method of determining public opinion, isn’t it? > > [404 Error Page | Winthrop University](http://www.winthrop.edu/uploadedFiles/wupoll/November2014WinthropPollResultsAndMethodology.pdf) page 22: > > Do you think the Confederate Flag should or should not continue to be flown on the grounds of the South Carolina State House? > > Strongly feel it SHOULD continue to fly: 42.4% > Somewhat feel it SHOULD continue to fly: 18.3% Well obviously the people driving past the State House at 5:45 on a Tuesday are largely urban professionals. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/323 "2015-06-23T16:31:18Z")
Sorry, Monday. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/324 "2015-06-23T16:54:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Strongly feel it SHOULD continue to fly: 42.4% > Somewhat feel it SHOULD continue to fly: 18.3% So over 60% of South Carolinians want their government to fly the slavery flag. A little more than 68% of South Carolinians are white, and almost 30% of them are black. That indicates that not all white South Carolinians are racists, but most of them are. Like I say, a pathetic excuse for a society. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/325 "2015-06-23T17:02:36Z")
A lot of people seem to have changed their minds in the past week. Some of them probably didn’t know before when they put the stupid thing up there in the first place. Some of them are suddenly finding it politically expedient. But a lot of people are calling for it to come down. We’re excited about it here, I can tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/326 "2015-06-23T17:09:51Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > So over 60% of South Carolinians want their government to fly the slavery flag. A little more than 68% of South Carolinians are white, and almost 30% of them are black. That indicates that not all white South Carolinians are racists, but most of them are. Like I say, a pathetic excuse for a society. From the same poll, among blacks: Strongly feel it SHOULD continue to fly: 14.5% Somewhat feel it SHOULD continue to fly: 12.8% So, according to you, 27% of blacks in South Carolina are not just racist, but racist against blacks. Right? ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/327 "2015-06-23T17:13:14Z")
[EBay](http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/23/politics/confederate-flag-ebay/) has now decided to ban the sale of Confederate flag items, as has Sears. There does appear to be some real momentum on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/328 "2015-06-23T17:15:49Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Drove by the State House yesterday on the way home from work. There were people out there holding “Honk the Flag Down!” signs and it seemed like _everybody_ was honking. There were people out there taking pictures of the flag with this weird tourist air, like maybe “better get a photo of it while we can!” It’s crazy, I think I might actually live to see the day that thing comes down. > > ETA - **AtomicDog** , I will therefore very politely tell you where the fuck you can shove that. Obviously, I was speaking of South Carolinian RACISTS, not South Carolinians in general. I’m sorry that I didn’t make that clear. As a victim of that polite racism, I can tell you that it did, and does exist. I appreciate your joining the Anti-Flag protests, and I, too hope to live to not see it flying any more. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/329 "2015-06-23T17:24:19Z")
I’m sorry, I shouldn’t get emotional but I am _so tired_ of people making assumptions about us. Comes up in every thread about “should I move to the South?” or “Tell me about Charleston!” or whatever. People say the most awful things about us like we can’t read and don’t have internet connections. Of course there are a ton of racist assholes in South Carolina. There are a ton of racist assholes _everywhere_ and frankly I think people from elsewhere like to go on about how hella racist everybody down here is so they don’t have to look at their own race problems. You know the most de facto segregated place I have ever been in my life? Pittsburgh. Hell, I grew up “getting our mail” in Eastover, and I never in my life thought I’d see the words “Eastover S.C.” in a national news story. Fucking kills me. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/330 "2015-06-23T17:53:35Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > we can’t read and don’t have internet connections. My Wife’s cousin and I sat at the bar in a restaurant so that we could smoke. “This _is_ the South, isn’t it?” she asked. surprised that I wore shoes and worked on computers. 🙂 > [@Zsofia](#): > > Of course there are a ton of racist assholes in South Carolina. There are a ton of racist assholes _everywhere_ Thomas Shipp and Abram Smith of the Billie Holiday song were hanged in Indiana. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/331 "2015-06-23T18:10:33Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I’m sorry, I shouldn’t get emotional but I am _so tired_ of people making assumptions about us. Comes up in every thread about “should I move to the South?” or “Tell me about Charleston!” or whatever. People say the most awful things about us like we can’t read and don’t have internet connections. Of course there are a ton of racist assholes in South Carolina. There are a ton of racist assholes _everywhere_ and frankly I think people from elsewhere like to go on about how hella racist everybody down here is so they don’t have to look at their own race problems. You know the most de facto segregated place I have ever been in my life? Pittsburgh. > > Hell, I grew up “getting our mail” in Eastover, and I never in my life thought I’d see the words “Eastover S.C.” in a national news story. Fucking kills me. I don’t know if you were speaking about me, but I’m not making any assumptions, and I’m not an outsider. I’m a black man who was born in Charleston and spent the first 28 years of my life there, then moved to Atlanta for the next 32 years. I’ve felt racism, both polite and impolite. Like in high school, being the only black kid on a school bus who no one would sit by - when they deigned to let me have a seat at all. Or when I was cut by a white kid with a box cutter in front of witnesses and he was only suspended for a couple of days. I also have three of my best friends in the entire world, and they are white South Carolinians without a racist bone in their bodies. (One of them tried to sneak me into a topless bar while we were on spring break in Florida. Didn’t work - I got carded, but I appreciate that he tried.) Where am I going with this? Beats me. I think that I need to call up my friends and let them know that I appreciate that they stand with me. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/332 "2015-06-23T18:36:39Z")
Atomicdog, does the particular flag in question in question fly over the capiol buiding, or over a Confederate memorial on state grounds? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/333 "2015-06-23T18:40:26Z")
I had assumed you meant we are all racists who are polite, as opposed to all of our racists being polite. (And quite frankly I’d hate to see what rude ones look like.) Couple months ago I saw a subcontractor working on new buildings in my mother’s independent living facility refuse to do a job because it was “n\*\*\*\* work”. Like, damn, out there in the open in front of God and everybody. And then I saw his ass get fired so hard for it I think his great grandparents had to file for unemployment. As a white person who doesn’t experience it directly, to me the brand of racism you get here is always a surprise - you don’t know where to expect it, it pops up in the most unexpected of places and then not when you’re looking for it. But obviously my experience is very different from that of a black person born here, and different again from a black person from elsewhere. House just vote 103-10 in favor of beginning debate on the flag. Everybody I know is wearing blue and white on Friday in support. ETA - it used to fly over the capitol, now it flies on a 30 foot pole behind a Confederate soldier memorial. That was a hard and nasty legislative battle several years ago. Also ETA - I don’t like her one bit, but it’s possibly worth pointing out that the governor calling for this, the one who formerly said she’d talked to tons of CEOs and they didn’t care about the flag so why should we take it down, is a woman and an Indian American who herself famously got called a “raghead” during her first campaign. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/334 "2015-06-23T18:47:38Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Atomicdog, does the particular flag in question in question fly over the capiol buiding, or over a Confederate memorial on state grounds? The latter. State property, therefore State sanctioned. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/335 "2015-06-23T18:50:22Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > ETA - it used to fly over the capitol, now it flies on a 30 foot pole behind a Confederate soldier memorial. So - once you remove the flag, isn’t that same symbolism/reverence/racism preserved by _having_ the Confederate soldier memorial? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/336 "2015-06-23T18:51:48Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > The latter. State property, therefore State sanctioned. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/337 "2015-06-23T18:53:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So - once you remove the flag, isn’t that same symbolism/reverence/racism preserved by _having_ the Confederate soldier memorial? Hell, if you took down all the problematic statues on the State House grounds you wouldn’t have time to sleep. Don’t even start with the Confederate soldier one (honestly I don’t see a problem with memorializing the dead in a horrible war) - start with Pitchfork Ben. Then on your way to Strom Thurmond you can hit J. Marion Sims. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/338 "2015-06-23T19:59:12Z")
Is [this](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/21/21/29D7C09E00000578-3133597-Confederate_monument_vandalized-a-58_1434918039434.jpg)the memorial? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/339 "2015-06-23T19:59:50Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So - once you remove the flag, isn’t that same symbolism/reverence/racism preserved by _having_ the Confederate soldier memorial? Yes. The memorials should be the next to go. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/340 "2015-06-23T20:45:52Z")
No, that must be the Charleston one that got vandalized? [This](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fjstephenconn%2F2649718736&ei=WcWJVZTsGcixggSI3oGoAg&bvm=bv.96339352,d.eXY&psig=AFQjCNGda0mtzjMh3CO7IvvqkM1Sfe3T7A&ust=1435178708373926) is the memorial. Note the flag behind it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823.md?page=18)