# Charleston, SC church shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 18, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823 "2015-06-18T04:15:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/141 "2015-06-19T03:00:28Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Here’s the transcript from the video I posted earlier: On that transcript, the one that floats the idea that the attach was motivated by anti-Christianity, not racism, is a black pastor from a predominantly black church. Why are you not blaming him but Fox? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/142 "2015-06-19T03:13:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > On that transcript, the one that floats the idea that the attach was motivated by anti-Christianity, not racism, is a black pastor from a predominantly black church. Why are you not blaming him but Fox? First of all, that’s a bizarre interpretation of the segment. Fox selected this particular guy out of the thousands of black pastors in America, scripted the segment as being about anti-Christian bias (see, e.g., the banner that started _before_ the interview), and then were the first ones to raise the idea that it would be “extraordinary” to consider this a racial hate crime–a claim which the pastor did not fully embrace. Second, I’m happy to blame him too. If you cannot call out racism when a white supremacist shoots up a black church while yelling racial epithets, but you’re happy to jump to the conclusion that the motivation was hostility to Christianity, then you are a racist (regardless of your skin color). I think that’s about all I can say in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/143 "2015-06-19T03:19:12Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > First of all, that’s a bizarre interpretation of the segment. It is? Right out of the gate, after nothing but “Your thoughts this morning?” this is what this pastor says: “We are urging people, wait for the facts, don’t jump to conclusions. But, I have to tell you that I am deeply concerned this gunman chose to go into a church, because there does seem to be a rising hostility against Christians across this country because of our biblical views. And, I just think it’s something we have to be aware of and not create an atmosphere where people take out their violent intentions against Christians.” Is it your interpretation that he didn’t steer this towards the idea that this was an anti-Christian act? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/144 "2015-06-19T03:23:34Z")
Since apparently repeating myself is necessary: Fox selected this particular guy out of the thousands of black pastors in America, scripted the segment as being about anti-Christian bias (see, e.g., the banner that started _before_ the interview), and then were the first ones to raise the idea that it would be “extraordinary” to consider this a racial hate crime–a claim which the pastor did not fully embrace. Which part of that did you not understand the first time? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/145 "2015-06-19T03:30:05Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Since apparently repeating myself is necessary: > > Fox selected this particular guy out of the thousands of black pastors in America, scripted the segment as being about anti-Christian bias (see, e.g., the banner that started _before_ the interview), and then were the first ones to raise the idea that it would be “extraordinary” to consider this a racial hate crime–a claim which the pastor did not fully embrace. You have no idea how many black pastors in America hold this view, the banner that started before the interview is not surprising, since they probably pre-interviewed him and knew what he was going to say, and he was the first one to raise the idea that it was an anti-Christian crime. Which part of this did you not understand? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/146 "2015-06-19T03:39:06Z")
[Lindsey Graham](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthropology/2015/06/lindsey-graham-blames-christian-persecution-not-racism-for-charleston-shooting/) on The View > [@](#): > > “Strange, disturbed young man,” the senator noted. “Emily said in school he was just a quiet strange kid. Seems like one of these Newtown-type guys.” > > “Do you think it’s a hate crime or do you think it’s more mentally disturbed?” one of the hosts asked. > > “Probably both,” he replied. “There are real people out there that are organized to kill people in religion and based on race. This guy is just whacked out.” > > “But it’s 2015, there are people out there looking for Christians to kill them,” Graham added. “This is a mean time we live in.” [Rick Santorum](http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/rick-santorum-thinks-white-charleston-shooter-chose-victims-at-black-church-indiscriminately/) speaks at the Conservative Political Action Conference. > [@](#): > > “This is one of those situation where you have to take a step a back and say — you talk about the importance of prayer at this time, and we’re now seeing assaults on religious liberty we’ve never seen before,” the candidate noted. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/147 "2015-06-19T03:41:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You have no idea how many black pastors in America hold this view, the banner that started before the interview is not surprising, since they probably pre-interviewed him and knew what he was going to say, and he was the first one to raise the idea that it was an anti-Christian crime. Which part of this did you not understand? You didn’t make any of those arguments before **Terr**. I’m happy to respond to your feeble arguments as soon as you make them, but I’m not going to predict how you might choose to defend the framing of this incident as anti-Christian violence rather than racism. The number of black pastors who hold this view is irrelevant. The relevant point is that they selected this guy for a reason–because he shares their framing of the events. If you think they didn’t know what he was going to say before they called him for the segment, I’ve got some oceanfront property in Idaho to sell you, homie. Notably, the host went even further than the guest was willing to go, by labeling the idea of a racial motivation “extraordinary.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/148 "2015-06-19T03:49:41Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > The number of black pastors who hold this view is irrelevant. The relevant point is that they selected this guy for a reason–because he shares their framing of the events. It couldn’t be because he is their usual go-to black pastor guy, could it? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/149 "2015-06-19T03:54:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It couldn’t be because he is their usual go-to black pastor guy, could it? That’s perfectly consistent with my point. But how about you stop playing coy, **Terr**. Do you think they planned this segment to frame the event as anti-Christian and not about race? Or do you think they just went along with what their guest happened to say in the pre-interview? Do you disagree with the views they expressed? Do you think this attack was motivated in whole or in part by anti-Christian animus? What role did white supremacy play, in your view? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/150 "2015-06-19T03:58:28Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > That’s perfectly consistent with my point. No, it isn’t. You claim that they specifically picked him out for this particular interview. That may play if he has never been on Fox before. But he is a regular on Fox. So, no. > [@](#): > > But how about you stop playing coy, **Terr**. Do you think they planned this segment to frame the event as anti-Christian and not about race? Or do you think they just went along with what their guest happened to say in the pre-interview? I think they had the idea that it was an anti-Christian crime before the interview. Their guest, whom they didn’t specifically pick out, and is a regular on Fox, suggested it too. Note that this was before any evidence came out that this was, in fact, a racially-motivated hate crime. > [@](#): > > Do you disagree with the views they expressed? Do you think this attack was motivated in whole or in part by anti-Christian animus? What role did white supremacy play, in your view? Now that I know the facts? Of course it was a racially-motivated hate crime. Back then, before the facts came out? It was definitely a possibility that it may have been religiously-motivated, yes. I would have said it is more likely to be racist, but that possibility was present. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/151 "2015-06-19T04:00:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Note that this was before any evidence that this was, in fact, a racially-motivated hate crime came out. I won’t note that because it isn’t true. Since it seems to be the whole premise upon which your post is based, I’ll just leave it here. Hopefully tomorrow bring some solace to the survivors. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/152 "2015-06-19T04:04:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You have no idea how many black pastors in America hold this view, Neither do you, the church was known for its historical activism and I saw reports that[Rev. Clementa Pinckney had supported cameras on cops](http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-hunter/slain-pastor-spoke-support-police-body-cameras-while-sc-state-senate) in light of the recent suspicious cases of police killing minorities. I remember reports that the suspect did ask about where the senator was. Also there were witnesses that reported the suspect repeating a very racist meme and in the photos found we can see evidence too that this was more influenced by racist hate or/and politics rather than religious hate. A lot is bound to change once a formal investigation is made, it is clear that the black pastor in the FOX interview told people to “wait for the facts, don’t jump to conclusions.” But, of course he allowed himself to jump to a conclusion too, but what it comes out also is clearly the red herring that FOX is pushing. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/153 "2015-06-19T04:16:48Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I won’t note that because it isn’t true. AFAIK, it is. The news about the murderer’s “You rape our women…” comment came out around 8:25 am. The “Fox & Friends” segment aired earlier. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/154 "2015-06-19T04:59:40Z")
How Dylann Roof got captured. Extraordinary that he was recognized in a fast moving car on the highway. > **[This Woman Called in the Tip That Led to Roof's Arrest](https://www.newsweek.com/debbie-dills-meet-florist-who-called-tip-led-shooter-dylann-roofs-arrest-344737)** > > Before authorities arrived, Dills trailed Roof for 35 miles following the shooting in Charleston, South Carolina. > **[Florist Heading to Work Spotted Alleged Church Gunman Dylann Roof](https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/charleston-church-shooting/woman-heading-work-spotted-alleged-church-gunman-dylann-roof-n378081)** > > Debbie Dills spotted the car and called a man who called police, leading to the arrest. "We just did our jobs as Christians and citizens," she said. > [@](#): > > Dills was able to place Roof traveling west on Highway 74. She first began trailing him in Gastonia, North Carolina, and traveled behind him for about 35 miles until police arrived. She said Roof was driving normally the entire time she was tailing him. > [@](#): > > A woman heading in to work at a florist shop in North Carolina Thursday morning led police to a man accused of gunning down nine people at a historic African-American church in South Carolina the night before. > > Debbie Dills spotted the black car being driven by alleged gunman Dylann Roof at around 10:20 a.m. and called a friend, who notified police, NBC station WCNC in Charlotte reported. > > “I paid close attention to the pictures on TV, but I thought, ‘No. It can’t be him,’” Dills, of Gastonia, N.C., told the station. “I noticed the car. And I noticed the boy’s haircut,” Dills said. > > Dills, who was on her way to work at Frady’s Florist, followed the black Hyundai along Highway 74 while the man she called, Todd Frady, called Kings Mountain Police, who notified Shelby Police and led to Roof’s arrest. the station reported. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/155 "2015-06-19T06:16:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > How Dylann Roof got captured. Extraordinary that he was recognized in a fast moving car on the highway. > [http://www.newsweek.com/debbie-dills-meet-florist-who-called-tip-led-shooter-dylann-roofs-arrest-344737](http://www.newsweek.com/debbie-dills-meet-florist-who-called-tip-led-shooter-dylann-roofs-arrest-344737) > [Florist Heading to Work Spotted Alleged Church Gunman Dylann Roof](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/charleston-church-shooting/woman-heading-work-spotted-alleged-church-gunman-dylann-roof-n378081) Aparently the lady in question recognized him because of his haircut. She saw that the car was like the one that had been described, and when she looked at the driver it was the hair what immediately called her attention. In this respect, **Ike Witt** was eerily prescient early in the thread: > [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Assuming that the gunman did nothing to hide his identity, that haircut has to be a dead giveaway. _clap clap clap_ well done! ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/156 "2015-06-19T06:16:43Z")
This guy caught even his friends by surprise. These events were just hours before the shooting. No one seemed to realize how disturbed and dangerous he was. [http://news.yahoo.com/suspect-church-shooting-had-apartheid-era-patches-173023242.html#](http://news.yahoo.com/suspect-church-shooting-had-apartheid-era-patches-173023242.html#) > [@](#): > > Meek said that when he woke up Wednesday morning, Roof was at his house, sleeping in his car outside. Later that day, Roof dropped Meek off at a lake with his brother Jacob, but Roof hated the outdoors and decided he would rather go see a movie. > > Jacob said that when he got in the car, Roof told him he should be careful moving his backpack in the car because of the “magazines.” > > Jacob said he thought Roof was referring to periodicals, not the devices that store ammunition. > > “Now it all makes sense,” he said. > > Joseph Meek said he didn’t see his friend again until a surveillance-camera image of a young man with a soup-bowl haircut was broadcast on television Thursday morning in the wake of the shooting. Meek said he didn’t think twice about calling authorities. > > “I didn’t THINK it was him. I KNEW it was him,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/157 "2015-06-19T06:26:37Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Since apparently repeating myself is necessary: > > Fox selected this particular guy out of the thousands of black pastors in America, scripted the segment as being about anti-Christian bias (see, e.g., the banner that started _before_ the interview), and then were the first ones to raise the idea that it would be “extraordinary” to consider this a racial hate crime–a claim which the pastor did not fully embrace. > > Which part of that did you not understand the first time? I suppose they haven’t bothered to check whether the killer may be a Christian himself, have they? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/158 "2015-06-19T06:30:48Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > Somewhere on the interwebs, some crazy people are talking about _Rhodesia_?! People [talk about Rhodesia](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=608689) on this very message board. You decide their levels of sanity yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/159 "2015-06-19T07:02:45Z")
If this shooting happened at a grocery store, library, hell even a porn shop, Santorum & the dopey priest would’ve said the same thing. “Well, they shot a pastor. Doesn’t matter if he was trying to steal the Hope diamond, it’s still an attack on Christianity.” Where the “attacks” on Christianity happen is whenever a dumb-ass, like a priest or Senator Santorum, open their mouths and say, “attack on Christianity.” When they shut up, there won’t be any attack, of course, I say let them talk all day long. The wait for progress will be over very quickly. 😃 THIS little asshole murderer shot 9 people at close range saying racial insults at black people. He’s a racist, but yes, he’s also a Christian. I am really, really hoping that his statement in the next few days includes something about, “Yeah, all those GOP or GED candidates who like God and run for office, I think they really spoke to me as I fired.” Or even something as basically retarded as “God told me to do it for Him!” I’ll side pit all the news outlets who let stupid shit like this run as breaking news. This shithead is a racist murderer, plain and simple. I don’t care if he worships Bob. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823/160 "2015-06-19T11:45:09Z")
Maybe now might be a good time for SC to come to its senses and quit flying the Confederate flag. It seems to me that continue to do so is a tacit state endorsement of racism and if we want to eliminate future racist murders, how about we stop flying symbols of racism from government buildings? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charleston-sc-church-shooting/722823.md?page=9)