# Charley Horse - Where did this come from?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charley-horse-where-did-this-come-from/43936>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [December 4, 2000, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charley-horse-where-did-this-come-from/43936 "2000-12-04T13:19:12Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 6\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![mojopitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@mojopitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mojopitch)\
**Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charley-horse-where-did-this-come-from/43936/1 "2000-12-04T13:19:12Z")

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When and how did the term “Charley Horse” or “Charlie Horse” originate?

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**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\
**Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charley-horse-where-did-this-come-from/43936/2 "2000-12-04T14:04:10Z")

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Basically, no one knows for sure. Here’s a link to the Mavens’ Word of the Day that discusses possible origins of [Charley horse](http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20001012).

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**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\
**Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charley-horse-where-did-this-come-from/43936/3 "2000-12-04T14:17:42Z")

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And another link to a discussion of the term: [Charley Horse](http://www.word-detective.com/052699.html#charleyhorse)

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**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\
**Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charley-horse-where-did-this-come-from/43936/4 "2000-12-04T14:19:07Z")

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Not to disrespect **JeffB** , but the font of intestimable wisdom that is _Uncle John’s Bathroom Reader_ says it goes back to the several hundred years.

Apparently King Charles I or II decided to cut corners here and there and made the London Metropolitan Police walk their routes on foot rather than having them go on horseback. When they would complain of sore legs and such, they would say it was from “riding Charley’s horse.” Rather poetic, no?

My $.02

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**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\
**Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charley-horse-where-did-this-come-from/43936/5 "2000-12-04T18:54:36Z")

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Poetic, yes. Stories like this are seldom correct as to the origin of words and phrases. If the term really went back several hundred years, why is there written reference to it prior to the late 1800s?

According the link I provided above (which includes a link to the Word Detective, BTW), the OED says charley horse is of American origin.

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**Author:** ![Estragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5e925/32.png) [@Estragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estragon)\
**Post date:** [December 4, 2000, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charley-horse-where-did-this-come-from/43936/6 "2000-12-04T19:16:28Z")

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[http://www.wilton.net/wordorc.htm#charley](http://www.wilton.net/wordorc.htm#charley)

check out this page. one of the better etymology sites i have found.

"Charley Horse

This term for a pulled muscle is originally a baseball term, dating to at least 1888. Most sources list the origin as obscure. No one  
knows who Charley was or why he may have had a lame horse.

Mencken, however, gives two possible explanations. Mencken does not plump for them and to my ear they sound horribly strained.  
The first is that is named after Charlie “Duke” Esper, a southpaw pitcher who “walked like a lame horse.” Esper, however, did not  
make his major league debut until 1890, so while it is possible that the term derives from him, the dates make it seem unlikely.

The second is that it comes from a lame horse owned by Charley, the groundskeeper in a Sioux City ballpark. Mencken gives no dates  
for this one."