# Charlie Daniels? Please pick up the white courtesy clue phone. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2001, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598 "2001-11-05T14:04:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2001, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/21 "2001-11-05T18:18:10Z")
yosemitebabe writes: \> I’d better not tell. Anyone can see this. I don’t want \> the episode name posted. Nutjobs might be inspired to \> give her crank phone calls (she’d be easy to track down, \> once you know which episode it is). She’d never forgive \> me. You do realize you’re accomplishing nothing by not mentionaing her name, don’t you? Given that she wrote an episode of the original _Star Trek_ and that’s she’s female, I was able to find winnow down the list of people that she might be to about a dozen names in just fifteen minutes. (And if I’d been a trekkie, I could have done it much faster.) Another fifteen minutes and I could have reduced that list by half by eliminating the ones who have since died. Without a huge amount of work I think I could have told you exactly who she is and what episode it was. I’m not sure what you think you’re hiding here. If there’s a nutjob out there who dislikes that episode and wants to harass the screenwriter, he could have found her name and located her long ago. Mentioning that she’s your friend adds nothing. ---
**Author:** ![RainbowDragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@RainbowDragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RainbowDragon)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2001, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/22 "2001-11-05T19:52:10Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by beagledave \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Thanks for the art appreciation lesson. :rolleyes: > Chucky has the “right” to act like an ass. I have the right to point out that he is acting like an ass. > > In addition to not buying his music…am I also “permitted” to criticize his beliefs…or are his beliefs above criticism? \*\* Acting like an ass is an inalienable right of every American! Politicians have turned it into an art form in and of itself. You have lots of rights, and are perfectly within those rights to criticize **ANY** beliefs, including your own. However if you feel it is your job/duty to point out asses in the USA, I suspect you’re apt to suffer from finger sprain from all that pointing. The USA is loaded with them and dear ol’ Charlie is only the tip of the iceberg. I care jack shit about Charlie and his songs. However I do believe in his right and the right of all artists to sing about whatever the fuck they want. Even if I disagree with the lyrics entirely, I believe in their freedom to sing them. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2001, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/23 "2001-11-05T20:01:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RainbowDragon \* > \*\* > I care jack shit about Charlie and his songs. However I do believe in his right and the right of all artists to sing about whatever the fuck they want. Even if I disagree with the lyrics entirely, I believe in their freedom to sing them. \*\* OK I’ve had enough of your shit. Point out exactly WHERE in this thread have I suggested that a) Charlie Daniels be prohibited from recording this song b) Charlie Daniels be shot…strung up…thrown in jail for his beliefs. c) In ANY way shape or form suggest that artists not have the “freedom to sing” about what they want. Go ahead…show me. Really. Show me WHERE in this thread have I suggested that artists not have the right to sing any damn song? Since I have NOT done any of those things…your “point”, such as it is, is a moot one. Nice fucking straw man asshole. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2001, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/24 "2001-11-05T20:15:19Z")
> [@](#): > > …but he has also managed to write the dumbest lyrics of ALL TIME. Ohhhhhh, I don’t know about that. Are you too young to have heard _Seasons in the Sun_? “Goodbye, Michelle. It’s hard to die. When all the birds are singing in the sky.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2001, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/25 "2001-11-05T20:41:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\*I saw Charlie Daniels interviewed a few days ago. He says that he only was talking about the people who attacked us, not all Muslims in general. > > I am not a fan of Daniels (what has he done, exactly? He’s barely on my musical radar screen) but I do tend to want to give the artist the benefit of the doubt in these sort of cases. I can see where it might be possible that he was directing his ire to only the evil men who did this deed, and no one else.\*\* Of course, if his lyrics had included the lines “And our skin isn’t brown” or “and our eyes aren’t slanty” or “Our God’s name isn’t Allah” somehow I doubt “But I was just talking 'bout the people who DID this!” would be an adequate explanation. SIDEBAR: Am I the only person in the world who remembers that the people who actually committed the terrorist murders did _not_ wear turbans? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2001, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/26 "2001-11-05T21:30:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wendell Wagner \* > > You do realize you’re accomplishing nothing by not mentionaing her name, don’t you? Do I owe it to everyone to make it easier for any (hypothetical) nutjobs? If they are so determined, let them do their own legwork. At least by not telling, I’ll weed out the lazy nutjobs! 😃 And at least they wouldn’t have heard her name directly from me. All I wanted to do was cite a personal experience I had, where I knew of people (including me) who thought they knew the intent of a writer, when in fact they were incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![warmgun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecccb3/32.png) [@warmgun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/warmgun)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/27 "2001-11-06T06:54:04Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by PunditLisa \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Ohhhhhh, I don’t know about that. Are you too young to have heard _Seasons in the Sun_? > \*\* You realize I’ll never get that piece of shit song outta my head now, don’t you? Thaaaaanks… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Trucido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@Trucido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trucido)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/28 "2001-11-06T08:19:36Z")
Hate to hijack, and I probably shouldn’t, but I kinda took up **Wendell Wagner** ’s challenge. I decided to allow myself five minutes. If we take the criteria that **yosemitebabe** ’s friend wrote only one episode under her real name, there is only one possibility. If we open those written with a male coauthor, that adds two more to the pool. There is one more if we consider multiple-episode authors, and one past that if we consider one sexually ambiguous name. Can you tell I’m bored? ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Big\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/29 "2001-11-06T18:25:51Z")
Who gives a shit about what ol’ Chuck Daniels has to say. He’s been around a while, I like some of his stuff. All I gotta say is that before you go about trashing his song, write one that’s better. “But Sam, we are not musicians”, the teeming millions say. Too bad. I’m not going to bitch and moan about a professional engineer designing something wrong if I don’t know the first thing about structural design. I’m not going to down talk a computer program, because I can’t write code. If you think his song sucks, write one better, then argue about it. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/30 "2001-11-06T18:41:44Z")
Well, that’s just this side of stupid, Sam. Can I assume you never change the radio station when a song you don’t like comes on? I mean, it isn’t as if you could write a better one, so you should just listen and shut up, right? And, of course, you like every movie you see equally, because it’s not as if you could make a better movie. No, I’m quite certain you don’t behave that way–I’m quite sure you probably express your opinions on music, movies and television all the time. And, FTR, I **am** a musician. ---
**Author:** ![RainbowDragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@RainbowDragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RainbowDragon)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/31 "2001-11-06T19:16:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\*OK I’ve had enough of your shit. Point out exactly WHERE in this thread have I suggested that > > a) Charlie Daniels be prohibited from recording this song > > b) Charlie Daniels be shot…strung up…thrown in jail for his beliefs. > > c) In ANY way shape or form suggest that artists not have the “freedom to sing” about what they want. > Go ahead…show me. Really. Show me WHERE in this thread have I suggested that artists not have the right to sing any damn song? > > Since I have NOT done any of those things…your “point”, such as it is, is a moot one. > > Nice fucking straw man asshole. \*\* After rereading through your postings **beagledave** you are 100% correct. You have advocated that we do nothing but listen to your little rant that Charlie offended an entire culture. However in yelling, “Look here! Look here!” we are to believe that you find the material offensive and we take the next logical step that you would want it removed. If you wanted us to ignore the song, you never would have posted on it. You can only yell fire so long before someone starts picking up a fire extinguisher. My goal in expressing my opinion is that I don’t want people to censor Charlie’s work. I don’t want someone reading your criticism and think that some action is warranted. In fact, I advocate the same as you do. We should listen to your rant, and not take any action. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/32 "2001-11-06T19:34:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RainbowDragon \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > > \*\*OK I’ve had enough of your shit. Point out exactly WHERE in this thread have I suggested that > > > > a) Charlie Daniels be prohibited from recording this song > > > > b) Charlie Daniels be shot…strung up…thrown in jail for his beliefs. > > > > c) In ANY way shape or form suggest that artists not have the “freedom to sing” about what they want. > > Go ahead…show me. Really. Show me WHERE in this thread have I suggested that artists not have the right to sing any damn song? > > > > Since I have NOT done any of those things…your “point”, such as it is, is a moot one. > > > > Nice fucking straw man asshole. \*\* > > After rereading through your postings **beagledave** you are 100% correct. > You have advocated that we do nothing but listen to your little rant that Charlie offended an entire culture. Actually…you don’t even need to “listen” \ this thread…you could…you know…ignore it. > [@](#): > > However in yelling, “Look here! Look here!” we are to believe that you find the material offensive and we take the next logical step that you would want it removed. I don’t know who the “we” is that you refer to in wanting the offending material “removed”. I implied no such action. Other entities, according to the newspaper article, HAVE, requested that he change the lyrics before performing in their venue…he can say “screw you”…or he can clarify his lyrics. > [@](#): > > If you wanted us to ignore the song, you never would have posted on it. You can only yell fire so long before someone starts picking up a fire extinguisher. I didn’t yell fire. I pointed out the idiocy of his lyrics (you know…the Straight Dope: Fighting Ignorance…remember that?) > [@](#): > > My goal in expressing my opinion is that I don’t want people to censor Charlie’s work. I don’t want someone reading your criticism and think that some action is warranted. Gosh…didn’t realize I had such an immense power with my eloquent pit threads. Thank God you jumped in to rescue the First Amendment from “potential” beagledave stormtroopers. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/33 "2001-11-06T19:42:51Z")
**Rainbow** , you really need to relax. If I follow what you just posted, we should never criticize anything, ever. God forbid some opinion might cause someone to take some sort of action. Sheesh, get a grip. And I’m not even that conservative… **beagledave** , nice rant and better thread recovery. I have to agree, Charlie fucked up on this one. Artistic expression is important, but bigots are assholes. But hey, every artist has the right to be an asshole! They also have the right to be called on it. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/34 "2001-11-06T19:49:25Z")
And one more thing- To those of you who think that Charlie might not have really meant to single out one group with the “raghead” reference- **are you fucking kidding me?!?** The term “raghead” had only one meaning that I am aware of- it is a slur against middle eastern men who wear turbans or similar head coverings. No biker wearing a doo-rag has ever been called a raghead, nor has a black man in a bandana. Give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/35 "2001-11-07T08:42:55Z")
Thank you **rainbowdragon**. It never ceases to amaze me how the people who scream “freedom of speech”, are the same people who get upset if you mention an awkward word about a minority, ethnic, or sexual group. * * * Plato? Aristotle? Socrates? Morons! ~Who did you love before? Who did they love before you? -Better Than Ezra ---
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598/36 "2001-11-07T19:51:51Z")
I think certain posters are confusing criticism with attacks on freedom of speech itself. I don’t see anyone in here claiming that CD should not be allowed to write the aforementioned lyrics. I see numerous people criticizing them. I fail to see how “freedom of speech” (that thing we all love to get behind and defend, especially when it isn’t being challenged) is in any way “under attack”. We can suggest that he shouldn’t write such lyrics, or that he’s foolish for doing so, or that he misunderstands the situation; none of these things imply that we feel it is our duty to prevent him from espousing these opinions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-daniels-please-pick-up-the-white-courtesy-clue-phone/91598.md?page=1)