# Charlie Hebdo cofounder blames slain editor for provoking attack **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 15, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937 "2015-01-15T22:16:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/41 "2015-01-16T13:35:37Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Just because a violent act (be it murder, rape, or anything else) is _unjustified_, that does not mean that it must also be _unanticipated_. The CH staffers getting murdered is tragic and outrageous but it is _not_ terribly surprising. And saying as much is not victim blaming. I don’t think anyone is saying that that particular viewpoint is victim blaming. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/42 "2015-01-16T13:44:50Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > It’s perfectly within your right to go up to the craziest motherfucker in the bar and call his girlfriend ugly. I wouldn’t recommend it though. Doubly so, because he’d know you looked under her burqa. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/43 "2015-01-16T13:54:59Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I don’t think anyone is saying that that particular viewpoint is victim blaming. See post 25. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/44 "2015-01-16T15:31:28Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Appeasement and moral cowardice. > > The ridicule of someone’s beliefs is necessary if said beliefs are ridiculous and impact negatively on others. > > The tighter the restriction and the greater the threat, the more the ridicule is needed. What does the mockery _accomplish_? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/45 "2015-01-16T16:15:14Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > What does the mockery _accomplish_? It seeks to attack and diminishes the power of the authority figure or the ideology in question. The more power that is claimed for the figure and the greater the authoritarian or totalitarian the ideology, the more vicious the (verbal) attack _should_ be. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/46 "2015-01-16T16:17:17Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I’d still like to know, what does mocking the violent screw-heads accomplish such that it is worth risking their (morally wrong/insane) retaliations? The current CH cover mocks no one. It’s totally respectful. And yet major American media outlets refuse to show it. The reason it’s worth risking retaliation is because it’s the morally correct thing to do. Papers that claim to report the news must have fair standards for doing so. The response, “We report the news, unless THOSE PEOPLE might do something crazy,” serves to encourage THOSE PEOPLE. The principle is, apparently, already established: violence is an anticipated consequence of pissing off Muslims, so don’t piss them off. How many temples would it take being blown up, on US soil, for the principle to extend to Jews? 3? 5? After which reasonable people, like yourself, would conclude: well, the Jews should stop going to temple, they know the potential consequence? After all, is one temple service really worth risking your life? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/47 "2015-01-16T16:24:43Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Piece written by an OUP official: > > [No, we haven’t banned books on pigs – but sensitivity is key in global publishing | Jane Harley | The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/15/books-pigs-global-publishing-oxford-university-press-children) Thanks for that link. I disagree with a lot of what that author has to say, but as you say, it’s probably all about the bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/48 "2015-01-16T16:27:51Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > What does the mockery _accomplish_? It entertains people. It makes them laugh. It exposes asinine beliefs (like fundamentalist Islam) to well-deserved ridicule. It serves notice that in a free society you don’t get to silence your opponents by being a violent douchebag. It gives opponents of fundamentalist Islam comfort knowing that others share their contempt. Most of all it allows the authors to satisfy the human urge to express their point of view on a controversial topic in a forceful way, in the same way that we derive satisfaction from posting on this message board even though we know it won’t change the world. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/49 "2015-01-16T16:44:25Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > It entertains people. It makes them laugh. It exposes asinine beliefs (like fundamentalist Islam) to well-deserved ridicule. It serves notice that in a free society you don’t get to silence your opponents by being a violent douchebag. It gives opponents of fundamentalist Islam comfort knowing that others share their contempt. Most of all it allows the authors to satisfy the human urge to express their point of view on a controversial topic in a forceful way, in the same way that we derive satisfaction from posting on this message board even though we know it won’t change the world. Freddy’s the man. FREDDY’S! THE! MAN! ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/50 "2015-01-16T17:39:25Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > See post 25. Post 25 says nothing of the sort. Try again. This time, try harder to understand the difference between the OP and post #39. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/51 "2015-01-16T18:02:33Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > The current CH cover mocks no one. It’s totally respectful. And yet major American media outlets refuse to show it. > > The reason it’s worth risking retaliation is because it’s the morally correct thing to do. Papers that claim to report the news must have fair standards for doing so. The response, “We report the news, unless THOSE PEOPLE might do something crazy,” serves to encourage THOSE PEOPLE. > > The principle is, apparently, already established: violence is an anticipated consequence of pissing off Muslims, so don’t piss them off. How many temples would it take being blown up, on US soil, for the principle to extend to Jews? 3? 5? After which reasonable people, like yourself, would conclude: well, the Jews should stop going to temple, they know the potential consequence? > > After all, is one temple service really worth risking your life? I can reach my own conclusion, thank you. The French magazine in question, as I understand it, did not piss off the screw-heads through news reporting. They did it through what they characterize as satire. From what I have seen, it isn’t that sophisticated. It was no better than simple mockery. Their cartoons on other topics, including Christianity, were no more sophisticated. Nothing I saw, which I admit was only a handful of cartoons, seemed to have any point other than to offend believers in those religions. Certainly, none of it was at any risk of making anybody really think deeply on a topic or change his beliefs. Freedom of speech includes offensive speech. They have a right to be puerile and offensive, one supposes. The world being what it is, they must deal with the fallout when their “satire” garners a reaction from some irrational, violent people. If I was going to lay my life on the line, which is what they are doing, I would at least go with better quality material than they died for. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/52 "2015-01-16T18:14:30Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > What does the mockery _accomplish_? Without it you have restriction of speech and freedom and that leads to terrorists like the ones who murdered the CH people. Without it you have North Korea. If you hate mockery so much you are free to move to Paradise of Dear Leader. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/53 "2015-01-16T18:16:46Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Attacking the beliefs of over a billion Muslim people is racist. They are a group just like Asians, Blacks, Catholics or any other group. Are you saying that an Asian Catholic, a black Catholic and a white Catholic are all the same race? ---
**Author:** ![Monstera\_deliciosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monstera_deliciosa/32/109_2.png) [@Monstera\_deliciosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstera_deliciosa)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/54 "2015-01-16T18:38:27Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Race is more than skin color or what part of the world your ancestors came from. Culture and religion are a factor too. Racism can extend across any large group of people that are mocked or persecuted. > > Race is also a term science uses to categorize people by ancestry. I’m not using it in that limited scientific definition… > > If you prefer then lets just call the Charlie cartoons deeply offensive to many people. You need to expand your vocabulary. Using the word “racism” to describe religious or cultural hatred and ignorance is both ridiculous and excessively inflammatory. Whatever happened to more precise terms like bigotry and prejudice? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/55 "2015-01-16T18:41:08Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Without it you have restriction of speech and freedom and that leads to terrorists like the ones who murdered the CH people. > > Without it you have North Korea. If you hate mockery so much you are free to move to Paradise of Dear Leader. Okay. Time for solutions. What do you see as a workable solution to allow magazines to publish puerile, offensive cartoons in safety from the retaliations of violent people? We can natter on all day here about rights, but we have all the proof we need that having the right to do something doesn’t make you bulletproof. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/56 "2015-01-16T19:15:55Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Are you saying that an Asian Catholic, a black Catholic and a white Catholic are all the same race? Also the Boy Scouts are a group. Are they a race? > [@Scumpup](#): > > Okay. Time for solutions. What do you see as a workable solution to allow magazines to publish puerile, offensive cartoons in safety from the retaliations of violent people? We can natter on all day here about rights, but we have all the proof we need that having the right to do something doesn’t make you bulletproof. I don’t think there is a solution. Let them publish what is allowed under the law and if bad things happen then that sucks. There are always going to be bad people and we can’t give everyone their own personal guard. I had read somewhere the CH has been threatened in the past and their attitude was “screw off we’ll publish what we want”. This time bad people decided to be bad instead of just complainy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/57 "2015-01-16T20:31:32Z")
Hebdo had been firebombed before, so it had already escalated past complaints before this shooting ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/58 "2015-01-16T21:13:01Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > What does the mockery _accomplish_? Have you never seen a political cartoon? They often use mockery to make a point. Here’s the thing - in a democratic society, one has the absolute right to believe whatever they wish. Fervently, even. One does not, however, have the right to expect everyone else to believe the same. I am a Christian, a great many people on this board are not. If I expect them to hold themselves to the tenets of my particlar brand of Christianity, then I am a fool. That being said, the right of free speech, where it exists at all, only sets limits on how the government must deal with the people. It has no bearing on how people must deal with each other. If I wish to ban the use of the word “shrubbery” in my house I can do so. If I wish to ban someone from my home forever because they said the offensive “s” word, I may do that as well. They are free mock me mercilessly for my stance and actions. Neither of us has the right to attack the other. And finally, just because neither of us has the right to attack does not mean it won’t happen. No one deserves to die for thinking, writing or drawing something that someone else finds offensive - even bitterly offensive. Some will, though. History teaches that abundantly. To think otherwise is foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/59 "2015-01-16T22:04:46Z")
You keep using that word “right” like it confers some protection. Clearly, Islamists do not recognize that you have any right to publicly mock them or their beliefs. They are willing shoot you in the face over it. Criminal prosecutions after the fact won’t unshoot your face. When you are dealing with violent crazies, you should choose your battles carefully. Lots in this thread seem to think publication of sophomoric cartoons was worth loss of lives because rights. Of course, nobody in this thread was at risk of getting shot in the face. I think those dead Frenchies chose a poor hill on which to die. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937/60 "2015-01-16T22:30:46Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > You keep using that word “right” like it confers some protection. Reread my post, slowly ths time, for comprehension. Especially the part where I say “just because neither of us has the right to attack does not mean it won’t happen”. > [@](#): > > Clearly, Islamists do not recognize that you have any right to publicly mock them or their beliefs. They are willing shoot you in the face over it…When you are dealing with violent crazies, you should choose your battles carefully… And the part where I say “No one deserves to die for thinking, writing or drawing something that someone else finds offensive - even bitterly offensive. **Some will, though** ” (bolding added for emphasis). > [@](#): > > Lots in this thread seem to think publication of sophomoric cartoons was worth loss of lives because rights. Of course, nobody in this thread was at risk of getting shot in the face. I think those dead Frenchies chose a poor hill on which to die. Those “dead Frenchies”, as you so delicately put it, may well have thought it a very good hill upon which to die. Your opinion matters exactly squat. By the way, “dead Frenchies” could be considered quite offensive, Mr. Pot. It is generally considered bad form to do the very thing you are roasting others for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-hebdo-cofounder-blames-slain-editor-for-provoking-attack/709937.md?page=4)