# Charlie Kirk is Dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 11, 2025, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935 "2025-09-11T07:35:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/101 "2025-09-12T14:32:55Z")
Ahh, thank you! I assumed it would be an _internet_ meme, I wasn’t expecting a classic. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/102 "2025-09-12T14:33:23Z")
“If you don’t like it here then move to [whatever other country]” is an obnoxious rhetorical device that’s not even true. It adds nothing to the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/103 "2025-09-12T14:35:03Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > “If you don’t like it here then move to [whatever other country]” is an obnoxious rhetorical device that’s not even true. I would quibble about “obnoxious”, but yes, it’s very obviously a rhetorical device, not an actual call for people to literally leave the country. I’m glad we are on the same page. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/104 "2025-09-12T14:58:39Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I assumed it would be an _internet_ meme, I wasn’t expecting a classic. It’s both. Do an image search on Bella Ciao Money Heist. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/105 "2025-09-12T14:59:02Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > notices bulge, what’s this You left out the oWo. It’s a furry thing, but probably not limited to that fandom. > [@Babale](#): > > “Bella ciao” no idea. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/O6oR4xK6xe8/maxresdefault.jpg "Manu Chao - "Bella Ciao" ft."Partizanska Eskadrila" (1979) tribute") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6oR4xK6xe8) This is in my YouTube playlist. An old school lefty thing. Weird combination of references. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/106 "2025-09-12T14:59:31Z")
You can’t kid me. “Leave this country” is _not_ normal political discourse. It’s a specialty of the Birchers and similar fringe cranks. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/107 "2025-09-12T15:00:10Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > You left out the oWo. Oh, is that what that was? I thought the guy in the press conference was just tripping over his words. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/108 "2025-09-12T15:03:14Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > You can’t kid me. “Leave this country” is _not_ normal political discourse. It’s a specialty of the Birchers and similar fringe cranks. That’s great for you. Zee is already further to the left than I am, she’s definitely in the Social Democrat camp; if people even further Left then her want to purity test her out of their camp, I’m fine with that, because I don’t want to be in the same camp as them. 🤷‍♂️ If you have a problem with the sentiment expressed by that phrase, which is “if you are celebrating political murders you have no place in my political coalition or my vision for American society”, then we fundamentally disagree. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/109 "2025-09-12T15:09:08Z")
The rhetoric gives the feel of an opportunist focused towards increasing her public profile. It shines though for me as I’m already a skeptical fellow towards “influencers”. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/110 "2025-09-12T15:10:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Oh, is that what that was? I thought the guy in the press conference was just tripping over his words. It’s an emoji, I don’t know where it came from. Anime, maybe? And people also say it, like ‘oo-woo’. All this stuff is just memes. Young people don’t seem to have any coherent ideology anymore, but they still kill people over it. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/111 "2025-09-12T15:12:52Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > All this stuff is just memes. Young people don’t seem to have any coherent ideology anymore, but they still kill people over it. Memes can express ideology. The church shooter the other day had dozens of memes written on his guns and clips, but they were mostly very political memes. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/112 "2025-09-12T15:19:48Z")
The “arrow down etc” thing appears to be a reference to a Helldivers meme. If nothing else, this guy is _super_ online and probably does at least a little shitposting, which will be insanely baffling to anyone who isn’t equally online. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/113 "2025-09-12T15:25:51Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Young people don’t seem to have any coherent ideology anymore, but they still kill people over it. “I mean, say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism - at least it’s an ethos.” ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/114 "2025-09-12T15:33:18Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Memes can express ideology. The church shooter the other day had dozens of memes written on his guns and clips, but they were mostly very political memes. Oh sure, they can, but what the heck are these expressing? The three main possibilities for the shooter were leftist, rightist disgruntled about Epstein, or Groyper. These memes seem most like the former, but mostly just make him sound extremely online. I don’t remember the memes from the church shooting expressing anything particularly coherent either. What were they? > [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > “I mean, say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism - at least it’s an ethos.” Lmao ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/115 "2025-09-12T15:34:33Z")
Klein’s right, when both sides are rational actors who have the nation’s best interests in mind. The message that should be taken from Kirk’s murder is that people on one side are being pushed too far, and maybe cooling it down/backing off are warranted. But I sort of doubt that the GOP will do anything but press the pedal further down. They’re so ‘eat up’ with winning and opposing everything Democrat, that they’re going to seek ways to spin this for their own benefit and castigate the Democrats/Left even further. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/116 "2025-09-12T15:41:09Z")
I think there’s a big misunderstanding of bail in the US (something [for this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-schools-be-teaching/1022754)), where people tend to think that someone in jail prior to trial is being punished in some fashion, and letting them out on bail is some sort of miscarriage of justice/letting criminals go free. It’s not. Bail’s just substituting money for detainment as a guarantee that the person will show up in court to face justice. And bail’s typically set according to the gravity of the crime; if someone’s willing to risk some colossal amount of money so a murderer can be free prior to their trial, that’s fine, in that he’ll likely show up. He’s only been charged, not tried and convicted at that point; any jail is merely to make sure he has his day in court, not to punish him. But people don’t really get that. And some who advocate against bail don’t get it either; they’re still looking at the jail time as punitive, and approaching getting rid of it from that perspective. Maybe the legal system should separate pre-trial detainment from jail proper, and make it far more comfortable than jail is? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/117 "2025-09-12T15:44:09Z")
Back to Kirk, here is a page with live updates: > **[Live updates: Charlie Kirk shooting suspect Tyler Robinson in custody; family...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/charlie-kirk-shooter-manhunt-live-updates-rcna230762)** > > Conservative activist Charlie Kirk was shot and killed during an event at Utah Valley University on Wednesday. Authorities said the shooting was a targeted attack. Tyler Robinson, the suspect in the murder, is in custody and expected to be charged with aggravated murder. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/118 "2025-09-12T15:45:57Z")
Moderating: > [@bump](#): > > I think there’s a big misunderstanding of bail in the US (something [for this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-schools-be-teaching/1022754)), where people tend to think that someone in jail prior to trial is being punished in some fashion, and letting them out on bail is some sort of miscarriage of justice/letting criminals go free. Great topic for discussion, but not in this thread – as you noted. Please take further discussion on this topic elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/119 "2025-09-12T15:48:29Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > It’s an emoji, I don’t know where it came from. Anime, maybe? To some degree weebs, and to some degree furries. And probably furry weebs. Anyway, one of the old classic differences between Western and Japanese Internet culture is how emojis are made. The classic Western way is vertical so you have to read it tilted. The classic Japanese way is horizontal and generally with more characters. So the difference is something like : ) vs OwO. (Stupid auto parse). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935/120 "2025-09-12T15:56:36Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Oh sure, they can, but what the heck are these expressing? The three main possibilities for the shooter were leftist, rightist disgruntled about Epstein, or Groyper. These memes seem most like the former, but mostly just make him sound extremely online. The memes seem consistent with a terminally online leftie. I’d rather he been a Groyper, obviously, but it is what it is. > [@DemonTree](#): > > I don’t remember the memes from the church shooting expressing anything particularly coherent either. What were they? They were 4chan Groyper memes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-kirk-is-dead/1022935.md?page=7)