No more odd than a magic show for blind people.
When I was a kid we had a record album of them. I was old enough to know what was going on but my younger siblings thought the stupid puppet was actually talking on that record. :rolleyes:
Radio is a medium for the mind. You can just as easily visualize a ventriloquist and his dummy as you can any drama or scripted comedy, especially if there’s a studio audience responding to the jokes. Probably better, since you can’t see the ventriloquist’s lips moving.
Never underestimate the power of radio! It stimulates the imagination.
Ever seen Avenue Q? The puppeteers are on the stage and they move their mouths the same way the puppets do. The first time I saw the show, my mouth was wide open, and my eyes were going back and forth from puppeteer to puppet like I was watching a tennis match.
There are several types of puppeteering where the puppeteer is visible on stage. Japan has a tradition of it.
In the US, the horse (and other animals) in War Horse are visible onstage. But with that, and with Avenue Q, the eye is drawn to the puppet because that’s doing most of the motion.
I thought you were saying you had a record album of magic shows for blind people.
Which I guess is a lot better to have than a record album of an ASL comedian. Or an ASL ventriloquist.
In the 1940’s, Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy appeared in movies in which Charlie was seen to be able to walk and talk on his own, without Edgar around, as if he were a living puppet.
Madame P.'s maternal grandmother could not be dissuaded in her belief that Charlie was a real person and not a puppet.
I’m surprised this wasn’t mentioned originally: Howdy Doody was one of several characters Bob Smith voiced on his radio show. The character later became the star of a TV show voiced by Smith initially. And he was just as bad at “ventriloquism” as Bergen.
There really should be a different term for people who voice puppets and such who are clearly not doing ventriloquism. Throw Señor Wences into that group. Wikipedia says he was a skilled ventriloquist but the guy I saw on Ed Sullivan couldn’t hold his lips still to save his life.
Because I am moderately deaf, I’m a pretty good lip-reader.
One morning, I woke up early (couldn’t sleep), so I got up and watched TV - with no sound so as not to wake anyone else up. I watched the morning news - got some of it, missed some (no sound, remember), but OK, I’m just killing time.
Then a kid’s show vame on. The host said (according to my lip-reading skills) ‘Hello boys and girls! It’s a lovely day! And here’s Binky’. At which she cut to her co-host - who was a puppet.
I spent the next 30 seconds frantically trying to work out why my lip-reading skills had deserted me in regards to Binky - until the penny dropped. It was a rather un-nerving experience.
As a former ventriloquist, I can tell you there are tricks for how you speak for the figure. Certain sounds force you to use your lips so you substitute letters. Instead of “butter” you say “dutter” or “gutter.” Instead of “feather” you say “theather”. A skilled ventriloquist can kind of slur them enough to not be noticeable. You also rely on the McGurk Effect where your perception of a sound is fooled by the visual stimuli. When seeing the figure’s mouth move with the speech, you are somewhat fooled into thinking it is coming from there and you don’t notice the letter substitution. As a ventriloquist, I can’t unhear it. Since Bergen was on the radio, he had to enunciate clearly for Charlie. It’s one thing to watch a puppet talk and get the full effect of the illusion and another to just hear a voice saying “Gottle of Geer.” On the radio, it just sounds like a speech impediment. So, Bergen had to move his lips. He was so talented at breathing life into his characters, the lip movement illusion was no longer important. Plus, it’s not really a magic trick that is meant to be flawless. It’s all about the characters.
McGurk Effect Wiki
According to Buffalo Bob’s obit:
“But Buffalo Bob was neither a ventriloquist nor a puppeteer and he never tried to engage in the kinds of pungent exchanges that occurred between Mr. Bergen and Charlie McCarthy. Professional puppeteers off camera manipulated Howdy’s movements whenever he and Mr. Smith had a conversation. Mr. Smith prerecorded all Howdy’s responses and when they were on television, the exchanges between Buffalo Bob and Howdy were all controlled by an engineer. He simply put his finger on the record and stopped the turntable when Mr. Smith was talking, then took his finger off and let the turntable roll when it was Howdy’s turn.”
What bothered me more was that he didn’t even try to change his voice as Howdy. All he did was try to sound somewhat excited, but it was the same voice. Plus, this method of using a record means he must have never interacted with the children on the show. He was like a live “cut scene”.
No problem. He sold it, which was the point.
I recently listened to Gilbert Gottfried’s podcast interview with Willie Tyler and Lester. (Remember them?) Willie said that of course Bergen moved his lips because he couldn’t make those strange sound substitutions on the air.