# Charlie Wrangel - wrangle this! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2006, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140 "2006-11-20T13:48:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/21 "2006-11-21T19:15:04Z")
[QUOTE=BwanaBob] Moderator I screwed up in the spelling of Charles Rangel’s name, and that seems important to some. Could you correct the thread title please? Thank you. [/QUOTE] Sorry, no. There’s no frickin’ way we’re opening that can of worms. You just gotta live with your misspellings. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/22 "2006-11-21T19:34:43Z")
**Giraffe** , I’m pretty sure I can correctly read between the lines (ok, words, as there is only one line) to understand your reasoning, but unless you’re trying to get pitted, others might want a better explanation. Mods have corrected spelling in titles before, when asked nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/23 "2006-11-21T19:41:55Z")
[QUOTE=lieu] I believe his concern is that many of his constituents (Harlem) are more likely to join the Army out of economic necessity [/QUOTE] So he’s proposing to take away the one opportunity they have by filling the slots with people who don’t even want them. Brilliant. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/24 "2006-11-21T19:48:53Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] **Giraffe** , I’m pretty sure I can correctly read between the lines (ok, words, as there is only one line) to understand your reasoning, but unless you’re trying to get pitted, others might want a better explanation. Mods have corrected spelling in titles before, when asked nicely. [/QUOTE] I’ll occasionally fix a title if it’ll improve readability for others, but I really don’t want to set a precedent of routinely cleaning up after sloppy OPs. Also, once there’s discussion of the original title in the thread, it’s set in stone as far as I’m concerned. The space-time continuum must be maintained. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/25 "2006-11-21T19:52:48Z")
How about just a _little_ tear in the fabric of the space-time continuum? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/26 "2006-11-21T19:56:51Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] How about just a _little_ tear in the fabric of the space-time continuum? [/QUOTE] Well, I _have_ been itching to change that FoxGnaws title… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/27 "2006-11-21T21:28:20Z")
Rangel is the fuckwit who insulted Mississippi right after the election. Said something like 'Mississippi gets too much federal money, and who the hell wants to live in Mississippi anyway". Then when Chip Pickering called him on it, he issued a non-apology, saying he just loved his own state so much. Fuck Rangel, and the horse he rode in on. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/28 "2006-11-21T22:20:58Z")
[QUOTE=Giraffe] Sorry, no. There’s no frickin’ way we’re opening that can of worms. You just gotta live with your misspellings. [/QUOTE] Understood. The fabric of the space-time continuum must be maintained. That’s what I get for creating a thread before having any coffee. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/29 "2006-11-21T22:59:24Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] Rangel is the fuckwit who insulted Mississippi right after the election. Said something like 'Mississippi gets too much federal money, and who the hell wants to live in Mississippi anyway". Then when Chip Pickering called him on it, he issued a non-apology, saying he just loved his own state so much. Fuck Rangel, and the horse he rode in on. [/QUOTE] Well Mississipi _does_ get too much federal money, and it is just about dead last on every measure of goodness (wealth, education, health care, crime) there is. I am sick of the red states complaining taxes are too high while being net importers of tax revenue. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/30 "2006-11-21T23:42:09Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] … I am sick of the red states complaining taxes are too high while being net importers of tax revenue. [/QUOTE] This is by far the most telling stat about how the right wing is full of it. Us blue staters work hard for what? Just so we can subsidize those lazy red staters? It’s downright communist. Plus we apply heavy tariffs on imported agricultural goods, just so they can keep their jobs. So basically, we pay more for food just to keep them in business. What ever happened to free trade? Ever hear of capitalism? Of course, much of this is tongue-in-cheek, since it’s not quite so simple. But it always gets me when the right wingers complain about government programs, national healthcare, minimum wage and welfare. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/31 "2006-11-21T23:48:12Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] I am sick of the red states complaining taxes are too high while being net importers of tax revenue. [/QUOTE] So, maybe those stupid rednecks aren’t so stupid afterall. Fact is, the system was designed to take money from rich states and send it to poor states. This has nothing to do with red/blue but more to do with rich/poor and big/small. I love it when income redistribution advocating progressives get all tweaked at the natural outcome of policies they were the ones to implement! ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/32 "2006-11-21T23:59:16Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] Well Mississipi _does_ get too much federal money, and it is just about dead last on every measure of goodness (wealth, education, health care, crime) there is. I am sick of the red states complaining taxes are too high while being net importers of tax revenue. [/QUOTE] Well, see, Mississippi had a little news event a while back. You may have heard of it. Was called Hurricane Katrina. There are still people living in FEMA trailers because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/33 "2006-11-22T00:16:25Z")
Yeah, fuck them Katrina victims! Fucking Rednecks. Er, Red-staters. Let them wallow in their own crapulence! Because everyone knows that all rural people are rich Republican right-wingers who live in hurricane-ravaged trailer parks and want to take money from the peace-loving progressive middle-class blue-states. Yeeeeee-haw! Fuck them for being poor, ignorant and crime ridden! That proves they don’t DESERVE our help, if they only deserve help if they’re rich, educated and keep out the riff-raff! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/34 "2006-11-22T00:41:44Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] …I love it when income redistribution advocating progressives get all tweaked at the natural outcome of policies they were the ones to implement! [/QUOTE] Well, maybe. It could also have something to do with the fact that our system allots two Senators to a state with a population equivalent to a New York suburb. Thus allocating an extraordinary degree of political clout to its various citizens, in comparison to their urban counterparts. Seems to me that if your analysis were correct, this socialistic income-redistributon scheme must have been enacted when Eugene V. Debs ruled the nations legislators with an iron fist. Which was when, exactly? And wouldn’t such a dastardly leftist scheme have been undone when more sober minded folks were in the ascendent? Like for most of our recent history? Surely the Republicans were quick to strike to the heart of such creeping Leninism?! Why, a Republican Senator from the Big Empty would simply _leap_ at the chance to turn off the tap of needless and irresponsible moneys flowing to his constituents! And just as surely, being Republicans, they would understand the stern moral gravity of the issue, and heartily applaud his efforts! When has mere money ever overuled sound ideological principles? Ya think? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/35 "2006-11-22T01:19:28Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] So, maybe those stupid rednecks aren’t so stupid afterall. [/QUOTE] By that logic, the welfare queens decried by the right are peerless intellects. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/36 "2006-11-22T01:21:14Z")
What a resource to be tapped if they only fucking existed! Too lazy to even _be_, that’s just how they are! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/37 "2006-11-22T01:33:38Z")
No welfare queens? You might as well not believe in WMD or the War on Christmas. Nobody sees welfare queens, but that is no sign that there are no welfare queens! The most real things in the world are those that neither Republicans nor men can see. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world. No welfare queens! Thank God! They live, and live forever. A thousand years from now, \*\*elucidator \*\*, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, they will continue to vex the heart of Conservatives everywhere. (God Bless them, everyone!) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/38 "2006-11-22T02:00:12Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Well, maybe. It could also have something to do with the fact that our system allots two Senators to a state with a population equivalent to a New York suburb. Thus allocating an extraordinary degree of political clout to its various citizens, in comparison to their urban counterparts. [/quote] Yep. That’s what I meant when I said “big/small” vs “red/blue”. But it’s even more than jsut that. The whole “red/blue” meme is a fiction which, at most, tells us something only about recent presidential elections, not about Congressional elections. Tax policy might be guided by presidents, but it’s set by Congress. > [@](#): > > Seems to me that if your analysis were correct, this socialistic income-redistributon scheme must have been enacted when Eugene V. Debs ruled the nations legislators with an iron fist. Which was when, exactly? “Socialist” is your term. I said “progressive”. > [@](#): > > And wouldn’t such a dastardly leftist scheme have been undone when more sober minded folks were in the ascendent? Like for most of our recent history? Surely the Republicans were quick to strike to the heart of such creeping Leninism?! Why, a Republican Senator from the Big Empty would simply _leap_ at the chance to turn off the tap of needless and irresponsible moneys flowing to his constituents! And just as surely, being Republicans, they would understand the stern moral gravity of the issue, and heartily applaud his efforts! When has mere money ever overuled sound ideological principles? > > Ya think? Again, “dastardly” and “Leninism” are your terms, not mine. But I won’t defend the Republicans. They haven’t been the party of individualism and small government for a long time. They’re more pragmatic now-- if you can’t get rid of big government, then you might as well grab as much of the goodies as you can. **Fear** : I never brought up welfare queens. I’m sure a few of them exist, and yes I guess they’re clever enough to game the system. What of it? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/39 "2006-11-22T02:23:39Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] …“Socialist” is your term. I said “progressive”… [/QUOTE] Oh, no you don’t! Don’t even think it, I will not stand for any such semantic piracy! Nosir! Still a bit pissed at the gay people for burgling the epithet “straight” from the hippies! Grind my teeth any time I have to refer to myself as “straight”. Be damned if I’ll let the _steeeeenking_ libertarians make off with the word “progressive”! That’s lefty, always been lefty, \*das grubbenmitten bist verboten! \* ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140/40 "2006-11-22T03:29:29Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] You had me until the last two sentences. What spin? That it’s an idea opposed by most Repubilcans, most Democrats, most Americans, almost everyone at the Pentagon? That’s not spin, that’s a fact. [/QUOTE] The spin is simple. “Charlie Rangel is proposing reinstating the draft!” (and it’s true.) But they leave out “So that the children of our political leaders and wealthy elite will be risking their lives along with the children of poor and middle class parents!” By minimizing or omitting the point Rangel hopes to make via his proposal, they make it sound like some wild-eyed piece of goofiness from crazy Demland. “Hey, look, those Dems are governing like idiots just like we said they would!” Rangle’s point is excellent, his method of proposing it, and his timing, are incredibly dumb. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlie-wrangel-wrangle-this/381140.md?page=3)