# Charlotte **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 12, 2002, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234 "2002-12-12T11:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/21 "2002-12-13T15:29:14Z")
What I would find is that it was controversial to a senile Thomas Jefferson, and in fact might have been written [as early as May, 1775](http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1775mecklenberg.html). Here is the entire Declaration: > [@](#): > > 1. Resolved, That whosoever directly or indirectly abetted, or in any way, form, or manner, countenanced the unchartered and dangerous invasion of our rights, as claimed by Great Britain, is an enemy to this County, to America, and to the inherent and inalienable rights of man. > > 2. Resolved, That we the citizens of Mecklenburg County, do hereby dissolve the political bands which have connected us to the Mother Country, and hereby absolve ourselves from all allegiance to the British Crown, and abjure all political connection, contract, or association, with that Nation, who have wantonly trampled on our rights and liberties¬and inhumanly shed the innocent blood of American patriots at Lexington. > > 3. Resolved, That we do hereby declare ourselves a free and independent people, are, and of right ought to be, a sovereign and self¬governing Association, under the control of no power other than that of our God and the General Government of the Congress; to the maintenance of which independence, we solemnly pledge to each other, our mutual cooperation, our lives, our fortunes, and our most sacred honor. > > 4. Resolved, That as we now acknowledge the existence and control of no law or legal officer, civil or military, within this County, we do hereby ordain and adopt, as a rule of life, all, each and every of our former laws -where, nevertheless, the Crown of Great Britain never can be considered as holding rights, privileges, immunities, or authority therein. > > 5. Resolved, That it is also further decreed, that all, each and every military officer in this County, is hereby reinstated to his former command and authority, he acting conformably to these regulations, and that every member present of this delegation shall henceforth be a civil officer, viz. a Justice of the Peace, in the character of a ‘Committee¬man,’ to issue process, hear and determine all matters of controversy, according to said adopted laws, and to preserve peace, and union, and harmony, in said County, and to use every exertion to spread the love of country and fire of freedom throughout America, until a more general and organized government be established in this province. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/22 "2002-12-13T16:17:29Z")
I’ve been to Charlotte, and it’s not a world-class city by any standard. Of course, my current abode isn’t world-class either. You know how you can tell? _Because anyone who lives in a world-class city doesn’t worry about people thinking it’s a world-class city._ World-class cities don’t need pro sports (London, Paris, Tokyo). World Class cities don’t need to be famous for _one_ big thing. They’ve got lots of people, lots of public transit, and a reputation. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/23 "2002-12-13T18:38:28Z")
I think that London, Paris, and Tokyo all three have pro sports. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/24 "2002-12-13T19:38:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*I think that London, Paris, and Tokyo all three have pro sports. \*\* But they don’t _need_ them to make or break their reputation. If the pro sports in London, Paris, and Tokyo left tomorrow, they’d still be…that phrase. (I can’t even bring myself to type it, it’s so hackneyed.) At least that’s the point I think **Barbarian** was making. If I’m wrong, I speak for myself. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/25 "2002-12-13T20:07:47Z")
Oh. I guess I just don’t get the point. When the Hornets threatened to leave, Charlotte just yawned and said don’t let the door kick you in the ass. Is there some perception that the people there equate sports teams with world class? ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/26 "2002-12-13T20:27:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Oh. I guess I just don’t get the point. When the Hornets threatened to leave, Charlotte just yawned and said don’t let the door kick you in the ass. Is there some perception that the people there equate sports teams with world class? \*\* Exactly. The City Fathers have somehow gotten the idea that national sports = world class. After all, New York has a football/basketball/baseball team. San Francisco has a football/basketball/baseball team. Other big cities have f/b/b teams Unfortunately, it seems Charlotte didn’t get the memo that said don’t sign the criminals onto your football/basketball teams. And winning a few games every once in a while keeps the interest up. Shoulda stuck with NASCAR I says, says I. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/27 "2002-12-13T20:33:06Z")
Well, that’s interesting, SpazCat. I hadn’t heard about that. I’m not sure who the “City Fathers” are, but I agree with you that sports teams are irrelevant. As I explained, I love the almost libertarian feel of the place — it’s an entrepreneur’s paradise. I’ve never seen another city quite like it. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/28 "2002-12-13T20:50:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SpazCat \* > \*\*Exactly. The City Fathers have somehow gotten the idea that national sports = world class. \*\* What gives you that idea? Seriously, I want to know. Like Lib said, we let our basketball team walk, and I’ve never known of Charlotte even trying to get a baseball team. \*\* > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, it seems Charlotte didn’t get the memo that said don’t sign the criminals onto your football/basketball teams.\*\* Oh, puh-lease. Like Dallas, or any other city for that matter, got this memo? Professional sports are plagued with criminals, you can hardly blame that on the city they play in. And SpazCat…maybe the reason that London/Paris/Tokyo would get along without sports is the fact that they are all state capitals and they were all around hundreds of years before America was even colonized. I mean, saying those cities don’t need sports (especially when it’s already been shown that Charlotte doesn’t either) is a pretty weak arguement. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/29 "2002-12-13T21:04:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cisco \* > \*\*What gives you that idea? Seriously, I want to know. Like Lib said, we let our basketball team walk, and I’ve never known of Charlotte even trying to get a baseball team. They were trying a year or two ago when Raliegh was trying to get a team. > [@](#): > > Oh, puh-lease. Like Dallas, or any other city for that matter, got this memo? Professional sports are plagued with criminals, you can hardly blame that on the city they play in. Touche. But when Charlotte got the Hornets and the Panthers, they played it up as the Saviour of Our Fair City and They Who Can Do No Wrong. Remember how they sold out the stadiums the first few years? Boy, that dream got them far, huh? > [@](#): > > And SpazCat…maybe the reason that London/Paris/Tokyo would get along without sports is the fact that they are all state capitals and they were all around hundreds of years before America was even colonized. I mean, saying those cities don’t need sports (especially when it’s already been shown that Charlotte doesn’t either) is a pretty weak arguement. \*\* London/Paris/Tokyo are _national_ capitals, dear. So you’re saying that the only reason they’re “world class” is because they’re old? Warsaw’s around the same age, nobody’s saying it’s world class. Timbuktu’s older, nobody says it’s world class. The reason those three cities are commonly called world class is because they have a rich and thriving culture of arts, business, family life, politics, history, and all that other good stuff. Those cities have character. Charlotte has a character too, but it’s more along the lines of “$$$GIMMEGIMMEGIMME$$$.” Granted, they are moving forward (I remember when downtown…oh, excuse me _uptown_…was a slum that no one would be caught dead in back in the 80’s), but it’s still nowhere near as cool as Winston-Salem or Raliegh. Maybe because they don’t tear down their historic buildings every six months for the new high-rise. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/30 "2002-12-13T21:10:42Z")
Gosh, Spaz. Why are you being so Pittish here? Cisco and I happen to like Charlotte. That doesn’t make us the spawn of Satan or anything. 🙂 When you say “they” tried to get a team, do you mean private citizens? If so, what’s wrong with that? Didn’t people from both Raleigh and Greensboro try, too? Besides, as I recall, that was Minnesota using Charlotte as a ploy to get a local stadium built. What’s wrong with being a mecca for capitalism? And what’s wrong with building new high rises uptown? For Charlotte, that just means more public art. As for Winston-Salem and Raleigh, I’d take Raleigh. But both are too parochial for my taste. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/31 "2002-12-13T21:25:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Main Entry: 1state > Pronunciation: 'stAt > Function: noun > Usage: often attributive > Etymology: Middle English stat, from Old French & Latin; Old French estat, from Latin status, from stare to stand – more at STAND > Date: 13th century > > * * * > > 5 a : a politically organized body of people usually occupying a definite territory; especially : one that is sovereign I think ‘State’ means country more than it means US State. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/32 "2002-12-13T21:36:00Z")
You may like Charlotte all you like. I do not, but that is just me. Apparently. By “they” I meant the City Council who also made “arena” a dirty word in Mecklenburg County. I don’t keep up with the elections there, so I don’t know if the same people are still on the council, but the private citizens of Charlotte I talk to would be happy if the sports teams dried up and blew away. Certainly there were private citizens trying to attract the teams, but as I’ve said, most of the ones I talk to were content with what they have. As for the mecca of capitalism, I actually support them in that. We need it in this area, especially with all the textile mills going under. (I’m looking in your direction Kannapolis.) The high-rises I don’t mind either, people need a place to live. What I don’t like is how they tear down historic buildings instead of restoring them and then later whining about how Charlotte has no history. Don’t get me started on Lake Wylie and Lake Norman. When I rule the world, no one will live on those lakes. Or High Rock Lake, but that’s an hour north of where we’re talking about. If I’ve given the impression that Charlotte is a Dark Pit of Despair, just know that I think it has the best radio stations in the state. I get mad when I have to switch over to Greensboro radio because it sucks. So there are good things about Our Fair City. That and if it didn’t exist, I’d live in a ghost town because the textile mills are going under. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/33 "2002-12-13T21:41:25Z")
Sorry to hear that. I hope you’re not losing a job because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/34 "2002-12-13T21:42:36Z")
And the newspaper. The Observer’s got the best comic page around. Especially when they started running Non Sequitur. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/35 "2002-12-13T21:48:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Sorry to hear that. I hope you’re not losing a job because of it. \*\* I’m in no danger of losing my job, but a lot of people around here did. My father used to work for Fieldcrest Cannon before they got rid of their computer department, but he was easily able to find a new job with a better company. The sentiment is appreciated though. Is anyone else having flashbacks to the “Charlotte will never be a world-class city until…” letters on the editorial page in the Observer? Boy I sure am. Those were fun. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/36 "2002-12-13T22:16:02Z")
I had a boss who loved Charlotte. But, being from Chicago, I have a very tough “world class” standard. I think I’ll stick around until it’s time to go to New Mexico. Forever. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/37 "2002-12-13T22:48:17Z")
Funny thing is, about 40 years ago, people called Charlotte “Little Chicago”. It was a very dangerous, dank, and dreary place. But then Hugh McCall moved into town. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/38 "2002-12-14T01:06:23Z")
Eh. I grew up in Charlotte and fled as soon as I turned 18. Charlotte does have some good things going for it: \*good libraries \*decent schools \*a good local theater scene \*lots of different immigrant groups, which means \*really good Thai and Vietnamese food \*unlike when I was growing up, there do seem to be clubs and cool places to hang out But other than that, it still strikes me as a huge, sprawling, soulless city. Well-defined neighborhoods? You mean, the subdivision after subdivision after subdivision? If you like the place, more power to you. But I’ll stay up here in the mountains, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/39 "2002-12-14T03:58:52Z")
Daniel, I am so in love with Asheville. I love everything about it! But I will take a peek at Charlotte when I get a chance. ---
**Author:** ![JimSox5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5a626/32.png) [@JimSox5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimSox5)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234/40 "2002-12-14T04:18:39Z")
The sad thing is, I thought we were talking about a woman named Charlotte when I opened this thread. The Hornets used to be my favorite team, but I’ve adopted my hometown Pacers as of late. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlotte/142234.md?page=3)