# Charlottesville: can both sides be blamed for violence? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 16, 2017, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787 "2017-08-16T12:21:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/141 "2017-08-17T16:54:27Z")
Assigning blame for protest-associated violence is missing the forest for the trees. Because _protest-associated violence is not really why current events are so alarming_. What we’re seeing is the normalization of hate groups that historically have favored the oppression of non-white, non-Christians. Legitimately or not, these groups see the current President as someone who keeps a sympathetic ear for them, who “gets” them and their beliefs. He represents an energizing symbol to them, and he’s unable and unwilling to say and do the necessary things to change that. _That is what is alarming to me_. I want to live in an America where neo-Nazis perceive the President as an ideological enemy, not as a bro. I wish we could move the discourse past the events in Charlottesville because to endlessly argue who had clubs and who didn’t isn’t getting us anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/142 "2017-08-17T16:55:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > …nazi-indifferent. Reich-curious? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/143 "2017-08-17T16:55:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Ahh, so you’re in favor of assaulting non-violent people in some circumstances? Good to know. Silly “gotcha” seeking. Did you notice his report of treating people with bloody gashes on their heads? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/144 "2017-08-17T17:05:32Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Silly “gotcha” seeking. Did you notice his report of treating people with bloody gashes on their heads? So you’re okay with occasional assault of non-violent people as long as they treat head wounds on others later? Is there a karma point system? How many bloody gashes does one need to treat in order to be allowed one assault on a non-violent person? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/145 "2017-08-17T17:15:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you’re okay with occasional assault of non-violent people as long as they treat head wounds on others later? Grabbing someone’s cow bell as they are banging it next to your head is not “assault”, except when iiandyiii is trying to “gotcha” someone. Bashing someone in the head (which is what I was referring to when asking if you saw references to that in his report) is. But you go ahead and try to nitpick someone’s grabbing a cow bell when people on your side (they are on your side, right? since by your logic the supremacists are on mine) are bashing people’s heads in. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/146 "2017-08-17T17:19:39Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Grabbing someone’s cow bell as they are banging it next to your head is not “assault”, except when iiandyiii is trying to “gotcha” someone. Bashing someone in the head (which is what I was referring to when asking if you saw references to that in his report) is. Got it – assault isn’t assault as long as **Okrahoma** comes up with an excuse as to why assault isn’t assault. Or would you like to revise your opinion and admit that, yes, grabbing a stranger (or their property in their hand) who hasn’t touched you is, indeed, assault, even if they are being loud? Or is it okay to assault people if they’re being loud enough? Just trying to learn about **Okrahoma**. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/147 "2017-08-17T17:20:24Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > To quote Chris Rock: “If 10 guys decided to hang out with 1 Nazi, what you have is 11 Nazis.” Does the same hold true for communists? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/148 "2017-08-17T17:23:47Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Does the same hold true for communists? If the communists advertise a rally with communist imagery and slogans, use communist symbols and chants, and the people arriving still march with them, than sure. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/149 "2017-08-17T17:27:53Z")
I hear a lot more main stream support for leftist antifa types than for the so called alt-right types. In fact I have yet to hear any support for the Charlottesville Nazis from anyone. Calling those thugs representative of the right wing is like saying all Christians are Westborough Baptists. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/150 "2017-08-17T17:28:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Got it – assault isn’t assault as long as **Okrahoma** comes up with an excuse as to why assault isn’t assault. No, it is not an assault according to [legal definition](http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/assault) of assault. And you can go and try to nitpick “specific intent” and “apprehension” stuff, but you will do that alone. Violent leftists thugs’ bashing of heads is not in any way ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/151 "2017-08-17T17:36:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Ahh, so you’re in favor of assaulting non-violent people in some circumstances? Good to know. In the circumstance the woman was banging a cowbell in front of her, trying to cause her pain and discomfort. That is assault, and the woman had a right to prevent further assault. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/152 "2017-08-17T17:38:28Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > No, it is not an assault according to [legal definition](http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/assault) of assault. Based on not-lawyer **Okrahoma** ’s opinion? Fascinating. Can you tell me about heart surgery, too? But let’s move past the legal analysis from us not-lawyers. You’re totally fine with grabbing women, or the property of women in their hands, because they’re being too loud? That in itself is interesting to learn about **Okrahoma**. > [@](#): > > Violent leftists thugs’ bashing of heads is not in any way ambiguous. Agreed – when you show solid evidence that this has occurred, I’ll join you in condemning them. Bashing heads (assuming not done in self-defense) is wrong. Hopefully, some day, you’ll join me in condemning those responsible (white supremacists and nazis) for the overwhelming majority of the violence in Charlottesville without reservation, and while making it clear that they are indeed responsible for the overwhelming majority of the violence, but my hopes are pretty low right now. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/153 "2017-08-17T17:40:15Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > In the circumstance the woman was banging a cowbell in front of her, trying to cause her pain and discomfort. That is assault, and the woman had a right to prevent further assault. I believe it was a man, whether or not that matters. Whether the intent was to cause “pain and discomfort”, I don’t know – I don’t have the mind-reading powers that so many conservative Dopers seem to have. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/154 "2017-08-17T17:43:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If the communists advertise a rally with communist imagery and slogans, use communist symbols and chants, and the people arriving still march with them, than sure. The Workers World Party, which is communist organization, had a large contingent at the counter-protest, so anyone who saw them there and did not go home is a communist. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/155 "2017-08-17T17:46:31Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The Workers World Party, which is communist organization, had a large contingent at the counter-protest, so anyone who saw them there and did not go home is a communist. You’ll have to cite that they advertised in flyers with well known communist imagery and slogans, organized the protest themselves, wore and displayed communist symbols, chanted communist slogans, and made up any significant portion of the counter-protesters, all of which were true of the nazis and white supremacists. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/156 "2017-08-17T17:48:28Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Grabbing someone’s cow bell as they are banging it next to your head is not “assault”, except when iiandyiii is trying to “gotcha” someone. Bashing someone in the head (which is what I was referring to when asking if you saw references to that in his report) is. > > But you go ahead and try to nitpick someone’s grabbing a cow bell when people on your side (they are on your side, right? since by your logic the supremacists are on mine) are bashing people’s heads in. “I touched them, yeah, but only gently, and only just enough to get them to stop the annoying thing they were doing, and I promise I did it with composure, reason, and love, and I waited until it was the only reasonable avenue left. They practically made me do it!” . . . that kind of story-telling doesn’t work when kids try pulling one over on their parents, and it doesn’t work when an adult at a protest is trying to illustrate what an innocent saint they are. And I’m sure it’s totally true that he had “water, a clean rag, and a mint” at the ready to offer the poor bitches, showing what a true gentleman he is. :rolleyes: And again, just to be clear: if you are willing to share the stage with Nazis because you just can’t stand the liberal snowflakes on the other side, it makes you a Nazi, whether or not you believe what the Nazis believe. Because when given the choice, you’ve shown that you’d rather be against liberals/BLM/Democrats than be against Nazis and white supremacists. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/157 "2017-08-17T17:55:30Z")
The worst part is all this is that the defense of Nazis is being drummed up so the GOP can remain in power long enough to pass their tax cuts for rich people. Not sure if that makes me laugh or sick to my stomach. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/158 "2017-08-17T17:57:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You can punch someone who poses an actual physical threat to you, however. So if a Nazi throws the first punch you can certainly hit him back in an effort to stop the assault. I agree. But I said you can’t punch someone _just_ because you disagree with them. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/159 "2017-08-17T18:12:56Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That all changed when it became politically popular to tear down a bunch of hundred year old statues that had largely been forgotten. Which statues are you referring to? This thread is about a protest of a statue forged in 1924. This may sound like a quibble, but it is historically relevant to note that this statue and many others like it were not erected soon after the war, but in the heyday of the second KKK in the 1920s. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787/160 "2017-08-17T19:22:19Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That all changed when it became politically popular to tear down a bunch of hundred year old statues that had largely been forgotten. > [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](#): > > Which statues are you referring to? This thread is about a protest of a statue forged in 1924. > > This may sound like a quibble, but it is historically relevant to note that this statue and many others like it were not erected soon after the war, but in the heyday of the second KKK in the 1920s. Also, largely been forgotten? These aren’t in some park or cemetery somewhere out of the way. These are displayed prominently in the town square. Sure the white supremacists may have forgotten about them, the way you forget that you are wearing a nice comfortable pair of underwear. Walking by them every day and basking in the statue’s racist aura seems comforting to them. To everyone else, these prominently and proudly displayed symbols of racism, hatred, and bigotry are a bit harder to put out of the mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charlottesville-can-both-sides-be-blamed-for-violence/793787.md?page=9)