# Charter or Airline flights across Antarctica? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2007, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448 "2007-09-25T17:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448/1 "2007-09-25T17:41:41Z")
I was recently watching a DVD of some Tri-Nations rugby. These are games between South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. Checking my globe, it looks like the great circle route between Johannesburg and Auckland would go across Antarctica. So would a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Sydney. I checked a few airlines (Air NZ, SA) but did not see any flights that would go over. Are there any airline flights that go across Antarctica? If I wanted to charter a flight for the Springboks to fly to play the All Blacks, would we fly over Antarctica then? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448/2 "2007-09-25T18:34:32Z")
You should be able to fly across Antarctica all you want in your own plane. There are airports (mainly icy strips) there. It isn’t much of a problem for the planes because there encounter those types of temperatures every day when they fly at high altitudes. Runway size may limit the size of plane that lands there however. I know that military planes life C-130’s go to Antarctica but there are also capable of using unimproved airstrips. I am not sure how you could rent a military plane but there is probably some plane that would be suitable for you. However, commerical airliners have some additional rules. The killer would be maximum time aloft to an emergency airport. I can’t see something like a 747 having enough room to land anywhere near that general area. The North Pole is much less of a problem in that regard because there are plenty of land masses south of it. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448/3 "2007-09-25T19:13:17Z")
[QUOTE=Hooleehootoo] I was recently watching a DVD of some Tri-Nations rugby. These are games between South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. Checking my globe, it looks like the great circle route between Johannesburg and Auckland would go across Antarctica. So would a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Sydney. I checked a few airlines (Air NZ, SA) but did not see any flights that would go over. Are there any airline flights that go across Antarctica? If I wanted to charter a flight for the Springboks to fly to play the All Blacks, would we fly over Antarctica then? [/QUOTE] In the very unlikely event Argentina plays in an expanded tri nations, a flight from Buenos Aires to Auckland would take you over Antarctica see ETOPS exclusions here > **[ETOPS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS)** > > ETOPS (/iːˈtɒps/) is an acronym for Extended-range Twin-engine Operations Performance Standards (or sometimes Extended Twin Overwater Passenger Service). These are safety standards set by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) for twin-engine commercial passenger aircraft operations. They are a safety measure intended to ensure that in the event of a single engine failure, an aircraft will still be able to reach a diversion airport using the remaining operational engine, albeit at ... Aerolineas Argentina do a flight, and I think Lan Chile also go that way out of Santiago. NBC ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448/4 "2007-09-25T21:27:32Z")
[QUOTE=Hooleehootoo] If I wanted to charter a flight for the Springboks to fly to play the All Blacks, would we fly over Antarctica then? [/QUOTE] You might find Air New Zealand a trifle reluctant ([link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_New_Zealand_Flight_901)); ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448/5 "2007-09-25T21:30:31Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] You should be able to fly across Antarctica all you want in your own plane. There are airports (mainly icy strips) there. [/QUOTE] I suspect few of those strips welcome transient aircraft, and that services such as hangaring, fuel, food and lodging would be decidedly scarce and dear. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448/6 "2007-09-25T21:55:00Z")
It’s not uncommon for scheduled flights between Australia and South America to go over Antarctica, but I don’t know how many do (I know Aerolineas Argentinas used to fly via the South Pacific instead). When we were all panicking about the Y2K “bug”, I remember a TV reporter interviewing folks boarding a Qantas flight, and asking them if they were nervous - as the clocks ticked over to January 1, 2000, they were going to be above Antarctica. After a long absence following the Mt Erebus disaster linked to upthread, there are scenic joyflights over Antarctica again - I’m pretty sure Qantas runs them from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448/7 "2007-09-25T22:30:48Z")
Flying across antarctic airspace isn’t as routine as you might think, due to the harsh environment and great distances from any civilization, and landing there takes very special planning. For one thing special heaters are required for aircraft engines. When shut down they must maintain a minimum temp. to be restarted. Here’s a brief article about a Brit. outfit that flys support for scienticic missions: [http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/living\_and\_working/aircraft\_and\_vehicles/aircraft/index.php](http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/living_and_working/aircraft_and_vehicles/aircraft/index.php) ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448/8 "2007-09-26T00:11:50Z")
The great circle mapper is fun to see the “correct” routes between places, and will show you the ETOPS ranges too: > **[Great Circle Mapper](http://gc.kls2.com/)** > > Displays a map on which the great circle path for one or more > routes is plotted and calculates the distance along each route. Ranges > from one or more locations may also be plotted, along with go/no-go > areas for ETOPS operations at... ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448/9 "2007-09-26T03:24:19Z")
I know nothing about it but I would be amazed if commercial airliners flew directly over Antarctica on scheduled routes. I could understand if they clipped the side of the continent for a bit, but over the pole? Wow. As we all know, Antarctica’s weather and temperature patterns are literally the worst on the planet and there are millions of square miles of vast, frozen nothingness. if something goes wrong when you are zipping along at 88 degrees S, well, then you are in _deep shit, right now_. Or so I would assume. Experts? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448/10 "2007-09-26T11:29:30Z")
[QUOTE=Shamozzle] I know nothing about it but I would be amazed if commercial airliners flew directly over Antarctica on scheduled routes. I could understand if they clipped the side of the continent for a bit, but over the pole? Wow. As we all know, Antarctica’s weather and temperature patterns are literally the worst on the planet and there are millions of square miles of vast, frozen nothingness. if something goes wrong when you are zipping along at 88 degrees S, well, then you are in _deep shit, right now_. Or so I would assume. Experts? [/QUOTE] As **Xema** pointed out, there’s a reason why Air New Zealand don’t do Scenic Flights over Antarctica, and it’s because one of their aircraft got caught up in a white-out and ploughed into the side of Mt. Erebus in 1979. Even with modern aircraft and advances in directionfinding/GPS equipment, the reality is that Flying Over Antarctica For Sightseeing is commercially a bit iffy- not that many people would want to go, and the insurance premiums would be astronomical, for a start. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448/11 "2007-09-26T11:57:42Z")
It’s a surprise to me that there are still commercial flights over Antarctica. I shouldn’t be surprised, but [I’ve learned something new.](http://www.comnap.aq/operations/aviation/) > [@](#): > > The first commercial aircraft flight to Antarctica took place on 15th October 1957 when a Pan American Stratocruiser, called Clipper America, carried VIPs from Christchurch, New Zealand, to McMurdo Station in the Ross Sea region. This was a one-off event at the beginning of the IGY activities and regular commercial flights did not commence until several decades later. > > In 1977 the Australian airline, Qantas, and Air New Zealand commenced tourist over-flights to Antarctica. Over forty flights were undertaken during the following few years but were suspended when an Air New Zealand Lockheed DC-10 crashed on Mount Erubus, near McMurdo Station, on 28th November 1979 killing all 257 persons onboard. Qantas recommenced the flights in 1994 using Boeing 747-400 Series aircraft. Typically ten flights are flown during the summer season. > > On the Peninsula side of Antarctica, Lan Chile have flown tourist overflights from the Chilean town of Punta Arenas using a Boeing 737 aircraft. Other Chilean regional airlines have and continue to run flights from Punta Arenas to the Peninsula region and, in particular, King George Island. > > In 1985 a private company, Adventure Network International (ANI), was established to provide flights from Punta Arenas in Chile to Antarctica. The operation has steadily grown and ANI’s successor, Antarctic Logistics and Expeditions, continues to operate a number of aicraft and airfields in Antarctica every summer. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448/12 "2007-09-26T16:32:14Z")
**SmackFu** , cool site! It seems any direct flights from Perth, Australia to Ushuaia, Argentina should go almost right over the South Pole! ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charter-or-airline-flights-across-antarctica/420448/13 "2007-09-26T17:15:08Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] **SmackFu** , cool site! It seems any direct flights from Perth, Australia to Ushuaia, Argentina should go almost right over the South Pole! [/QUOTE] Alas Ushuaia, whilst it can take 747s is only used for flights back to Bs As and local short stop flights. I have been looking into this as I plan a trip to see some relatives next year in Perth, it seams the only flights to Australia are to Sydney from Buenos Aires or Santiago de Chile. It would appear these all go via Auckland. Based on the info upthread that the route to Auckland goes across the south pacific I take back what I said upthread regarding flights from here to there going over Antartica. cheers NBC