# Chastity Bono -\> Chaz Bono **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 12, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512 "2009-06-12T01:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/21 "2009-06-12T15:19:30Z")
Am I the only one who thinks the term “noted lesbian” is funny? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/22 "2009-06-12T15:25:59Z")
> [@StinkyBurrito](#): > > I hate this. He has the chance to choose any name in the world for himself, and he chooses “Chaz”. Bleagh. > > Good for him otherwise, though. I don’t even have the bravery to come out to most people! I’ll bet he’s been going by “Chaz” or even “Chass” since childhood. I think it’s a smooth transition. One less thing, ya know? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/23 "2009-06-12T17:05:42Z")
> [@MickNickMaggies](#): > > I think it’s great he’s appropriating a ‘WASP’ name. Go Chaz! Uh, why is having a WASP name good? > [@Blake](#): > > For certain values of “work”. Obviously they can never produce children. Erectile function is achieved by means of a hand operated pump and a pneumatic implant. Capable of penetration? Sure. Capable of producing orgasm? If the surgeon is really good _and_ really lucky. Dildos seem to work, so why wouldn’t this? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/24 "2009-06-12T17:28:21Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I have learned over the years that, in fact, many transsexuals do not have “all the surgeries”, particularly female-to-male transsexuals do not always have “all the surgeries”. > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Given the World’s Best Surgeons, how good could F2M SRS be? Could the genitalia 'work?" Would he scare children at the YMCA locker room? Fully-transitioned M to F is much more common than F to M, just because, as one of my trans friends put it, “it’s easier to dig a hole than build a pole.” F to M trans men will often get top surgery done but not bottom. The surgeries that are available now make something that looks like a penis and can work kind of like one, but ultimately is made out of a lot of tissue that is not the same as the tissue a naturally-grown penis is made out of. For example, it may use skin from the inside of your arm. If you’re a guy, compare stroking the inside of your arm to stroking your penis, and I’m sure you’ll understand the difference. Most trans men who haven’t gotten bottom surgery, though, will still wear a prosthetic most of the time, so no, they won’t “scare children at the YMCA locker room.” ETA: **Captain\_Carrot** , I think \*\*Blake \*\*meant capable of producing orgasm _in the trans man_, not in his partner. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/25 "2009-06-12T17:31:24Z")
Ohhhhhhhh… That makes much more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/26 "2009-06-12T17:34:21Z")
I think the correct answer to the OP is: it’s really, really complicated. Our culture and even our language don’t really prepare us to understand this. Whether that’s because it’s so relatively rare or because it’s “taboo” is unknown to me. The only question I see that has a pretty black and white answer is, being a lesbian did not cause Bono to want to be a man. Most lesbians do not want to be men. Probably she/he never really was a “lesbian”, but again, it’s complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/27 "2009-06-12T17:46:08Z")
To build on what **Cisco** said–It’s complicated. Even if he always did know/feel like he was a straight man, I can easily see why he chose to self-identify as “lesbian.” It’s hard enough being Sonny and Cher’s kid. It’s hard enough to be stuck being a public figure through no choice of your own. It’s hard enough to come out, especially when you have to do it to half the world. If just going ahead and calling himself a lesbian made things that much easier, well, good for him. He set the record straight when he was ready. I wish him luck, and I’m glad to see someone like him out there helping people understand gender identity issues a little better. > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks the term “noted lesbian” is funny? Nope, I think it’s funny too. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/28 "2009-06-12T17:49:12Z")
Being transgender is less common (and still less accepted) than being L/G/B, so it’s not uncommon for trans people who will identify as heterosexual after they transition to initially identify as lesbian or gay. Just like many L/G/B people originally identify as straight–a guy who comes out of the closet was always gay, even when he was telling people he was straight. So, IMO, Bono was always a trans man, he just hadn’t figured it out yet. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/29 "2009-06-12T18:05:42Z")
I think they mean producing orgasm in Chaz/Chastity. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ceejaytee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ceejaytee/32/2956_2.png) [@Ceejaytee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ceejaytee)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/30 "2009-06-12T19:15:23Z")
> [@StinkyBurrito](#): > > I hate this. He has the chance to choose any name in the world for himself, and he chooses “Chaz”. Bleagh. I’m pretty sure he’s been calling himself Chaz for some time. With a name like Chastity, I would. I wish him all the best. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/31 "2009-06-12T19:31:09Z")
Most trans people tend to pick names that are close to their original ones, too, and Chaz is pretty close to Chastity. ---
**Author:** ![MickNickMaggies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/59ef9b/32.png) [@MickNickMaggies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MickNickMaggies)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/32 "2009-06-12T19:58:28Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Uh, why is having a WASP name good? I was kidding…I do just think it’s funny that someone who’s so decidedly unstuffy from all his years of activism is taking a diminutive of his birthname that’s become representative of the old guard. ---
**Author:** ![gang\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f07891/32.png) [@gang\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gang_green)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/33 "2009-06-12T21:32:18Z")
Fark had the best tagline for it: > [@](#): > > Chas—y Bono, yes there’s something missing, that’s the plan, Sir ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/34 "2009-06-13T02:46:11Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks the term “noted lesbian” is funny? You are not alone! ---
**Author:** ![Auntbeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Auntbeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Auntbeast)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/35 "2009-06-14T00:56:46Z")
I always felt sorry for her, being stuck with the name Chastity. I mean, really. Why not just go all the way and name her Virgin. ---
**Author:** ![MickNickMaggies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/59ef9b/32.png) [@MickNickMaggies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MickNickMaggies)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/36 "2009-06-14T10:22:10Z")
> [@Auntbeast](#): > > I always felt sorry for her, being stuck with the name Chastity. I mean, really. Why not just go all the way and name her Virgin. He’s named after mom’s character, from a film that dad wrote: [Chastity](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064156/) ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/37 "2009-06-14T16:17:41Z")
This is an example of the kind of conceptual cul-de-sac one gets into by assuming there is “a real meaning to things” that is inherent in the “things” (situations, etc) quite apart from what they mean _to someone_. The traditional terms used are objective and subjective meaning. So, depending on the OP’s intent, the question, rephrased, might read “Chastity Bono used to be self-described as a lesbian. Bono is now a self-described transsexual (F2M). Was Bono always subjectively an F2M transsexual and simply was not aware of that, or was Bono subjectively a lesbian and over time changed her subjective sense of self?” or “Chastity Bono used to be self-described as a lesbian. Boni is now a self-described transsexual (F2M). Objectively speaking, was Bono always actually a transsexual F2M even before when subjectively considering herself to be a lesbian instead?” === The awkwardness in both questions points up the problem with “subjective” versus “objective” allocations of meaning. Meaning is actually interactive; meaning is meaning _to someone_ while at the same time it is meaning _of something_ and represents the relationship between the something and the someone. We find it useful to pretend that things have objective meaning, true meaning, meaning that can’t authentically be substituted with some _other_ meaning that this or that empirical object might hypothetically have for some _other_ observer. But it is simply not the case, any more than a flat-earth map for navigation is ever a representaton of how things actually are. I use that example because we find it highly useful to dispense with the spherical shape of the earth up to fairly large distances; it may not be precisely accurate but the information being ignored would just clutter up the works and the map is more useful to us without it. This becomes less true with larger distances like flying from Ottowa to Moscow. On the existence of sexes (and the notion that our species and a great many others come in two basic versions, male and female), we find it useful in a similar way to assume this is just objectively so, and not bother with “this is the meaning that sexual differentiation has to this observer”. We are more sensitive to and more flexible about interactivity and relational perspective when it comes to interior identity, though, so (at least far more than we once tended to be) we are nowadays comfortable with the notion that Bono’s body and gender identity have meaning _to Bono_ about which we must take his word, and that insofar as it is his body and his sexual identity (gender identity), it is the meaning these have _to him_ that matter. But we’re still used to the notion that there’s an objective meaning floating around out there (and that in contrast to that, there are subjective meanings that may diverge from it). Thus ultimately unparseable unanswerable questions that amount to “Bono is a guy (we know this because Bono has told us so). Bono used to say she was a lesbian (and we knew this because Bono told us so). Did the objective sex of Bono change or did the subjective gender of Bono change?” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512/38 "2009-06-14T18:00:51Z")
I wonder how long before she and Alexis Arquette (MtF) are in a romance for VH1? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chastity-bono-chaz-bono/499512.md?page=1)