# Che Guevara **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/che-guevara/666425 "2013-08-16T16:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/che-guevara/666425/61 "2013-08-20T10:05:54Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Guevara himself would be puzzled by efforts to paint him as “good” or “bad”-these terms held no meaning for him. He was a doctrinaire Marxist, and all that mattered to him was “la revolucion”. Whether innocent people lived or died was of no concern to him. > Like all fanatics, he was killed by people he trusted-Castro resented his popularity, and sent him off to Bolivia (to foment a Cuban-style revolution). Castro made sure that he didn’t come back (alive). OK, I’m not challenging you-I rather believe that Castro planned that Che wouldn’t come back alive, because I love to hear about double crosses in politics, and this fits my scenario. At any rate, what sources are you for saying this? I know that it would be impossible to really verify, given that Castro wouldn’t come right out and confess,so, the best we can really hope for is expats who were close, or something like that. I had read one book, IIRC it had ‘Useful Idiots’ or something similar in the title. Do you have other sources? If so, I’d like to read them. OTOH, I have also heard that Castro was just glad to get Che the eff out of Cuba because he was screwing up the economy so badly. As I said, I like to read political dirty dealing, so, anything you have would be helpful. Thanks, hh ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/che-guevara/666425/62 "2013-08-20T10:09:49Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Yeah, getting a venti mocka non-fat nutmeg extra hazelnut shot frapuccino wearing a Guevara shirt is like raping “La Revolución” in the ass. No, Comrade-as the nectar of the flower is to the bee, so the venti mocka non-fat nutmeg extra hazelnut shot frapuccino is to the laboring peasant who rests after toiling under the hot sun to bring food, land and peace to his countrymen. This wasn’t quite so prosy as I had wanted, but I had to get it off quick… ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/che-guevara/666425/63 "2013-08-20T10:16:45Z")
BTW, I had read somewhere that Che’s transcript had mysteriously disappeared and there is no proof that he had graduated from the medical school. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/che-guevara/666425/64 "2013-08-20T10:27:25Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Guevara no doubt was responsible for unjustified executions and other deaths, but comparison to Hitler or Stalin isn’t warranted either. There was quite a bit of debt-settling after the Revolution, but nothing comparable to the many millions killed by Hitler or Stalin. So, are we putting him in the ‘swell guy’ category? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/che-guevara/666425/65 "2013-08-20T10:27:28Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > OK, I’m not challenging you-I rather believe that Castro planned that Che wouldn’t come back alive, because I love to hear about double crosses in politics, and this fits my scenario. At any rate, what sources are you for saying this? I know that it would be impossible to really verify, given that Castro wouldn’t come right out and confess,so, the best we can really hope for is expats who were close, or something like that. I had read one book, IIRC it had ‘Useful Idiots’ or something similar in the title. Do you have other sources? If so, I’d like to read them. > > OTOH, I have also heard that Castro was just glad to get Che the eff out of Cuba because he was screwing up the economy so badly. As I said, I like to read political dirty dealing, so, anything you have would be helpful. > > Thanks, > hh I can’t offer proof. But Castro was moving close to the Soviet Union as he needed Soviet economic assistance. Guevara was a much more radical figure and he had spoken out publicly against Khrushchev and the Soviets for not being radical enough. Plus Castro was looking to make himself the undisputed face of Cuban communism and he wouldn’t have wanted another charismatic figure distracting away attention. When Guevara went off to Africa and Bolivia he found the local communist organizations wouldn’t support him which placed him in an exposed position. He was almost captured in the Congo and he was caught and killed in Bolivia. One possibility is that Khrushchev had decided that Guevara would best serve the communist cause as a martyr who could no longer question authority. Castro, who needed Khrushchev and had his own reasons to wish an end to Guevara, agreed to sent him off to the front. The Soviets could have then told the local communists to keep their distance and just let events take their natural course. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/che-guevara/666425/66 "2013-08-20T13:43:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I can’t offer proof. But Castro was moving close to the Soviet Union as he needed Soviet economic assistance. Guevara was a much more radical figure and he had spoken out publicly against Khrushchev and the Soviets for not being radical enough. I knew that he’d PO’d Fidel, but I didn’t know that he was giving K a bunch of crap. He must have been a bigger dork than I had thought! BTW, I had also read that he wasn’t crap as a warrior, Castro’s forces won just because everybody, and I mean _ **everybody** _, hated Batista, and his soldiers deserted because nobody gave a crap, not because of the great fighting force assembled against them. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/che-guevara/666425/67 "2013-08-20T14:42:01Z")
> [@For You](#): > > I was, apparently lamely, trying to compliment the even-handed tone of what you wrote. Oh!! Thanks so much, then. I’m sorry – I didn’t pick up on that at all. I appreciate the reaction, though – my personal politics are very much anti-Castro and anti-Che, so if the piece comes off fair, I did my job. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/che-guevara/666425/68 "2013-08-20T19:52:56Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I knew that he’d PO’d Fidel, but I didn’t know that he was giving K a bunch of crap. > He must have been a bigger dork than I had thought! He said Khrushchev bungled the Cuban Missile Crisis. In Guevara’s opinion, the Soviets should have defied the Americans even at the risk of a nuclear war. He said Cuba was “a people ready to sacrifice itself to nuclear arms, that its ashes might serve as a basis for new societies.” ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/che-guevara/666425/69 "2013-08-20T19:54:12Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > OK, I’m not challenging you-I rather believe that Castro planned that Che wouldn’t come back alive, because I love to hear about double crosses in politics, and this fits my scenario. At any rate, what sources are you for saying this? I know that it would be impossible to really verify, given that Castro wouldn’t come right out and confess,so, the best we can really hope for is expats who were close, or something like that. I had read one book, IIRC it had ‘Useful Idiots’ or something similar in the title. Do you have other sources? If so, I’d like to read them. > > OTOH, I have also heard that Castro was just glad to get Che the eff out of Cuba because he was screwing up the economy so badly. As I said, I like to read political dirty dealing, so, anything you have would be helpful. > > Thanks, > hh Sorry, no direct cite, but I read that Castro arranged for all of Guevara’s plans to be “found” by Bolivian Army intelligence-which is why Guevara walked into an ambush and was killed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/che-guevara/666425.md?page=3)