# Cheat to keep Republicans from winning Mass Senate seat, says MSNBC's Schultz **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576 "2010-01-19T17:05:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/41 "2010-01-19T19:48:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wow. > > Really? It’s so important to democracy that you’d kill democracy to save it, eh, Ed? > > What’s interesting to me is the utterly neutral [tone](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/16/ed-schultz-on-ma-election_n_426068.html) adopted by Huffington Post in reporting the comment. There’s not one hint of disapproval in this story, other than the natural disapproval a listener might be expected to feel at the words themselves. That “article” consists of a sentence, a quote from Schultz, two more brief sentences of context about the election he was talking about, and another quote from someplace else. So the author actually wrote one sentence about Schultz for the “article”. It is: "On Friday, MSNBC host Ed Schultz proposed a radical path to a Democratic win in the unexpectedly close Massachusetts Senate race for the late Ted Kennedy’s seat: cheating. " No judgement there? Utterly neutral? Radical path: Cheating? Does the author need to explain what “cheating” means before it becomes a negative idea? Do you think he wrote it so neutrally because he agrees that cheating is a good idea? I’m seconding: “It’s just another “Some doofus on their side said something stupid” thread.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/42 "2010-01-19T19:52:31Z")
But, of course, you renounce, denounce and condemn? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/43 "2010-01-19T19:52:36Z")
Ok, here you go, **Bricker** : He’s wrong, he’s stupid to say it, and no one should listen to him and even begin to agree with his sentiments. Happy? 😃 But then, I don’t listen to him, won’t listen to him, and don’t really care what he says because I’m intelligent to make up my own mind about such things without listening to idiots, regardless of which side of the political spectrum the inhabit. So what is the “Great Debate” here? I tend to think you have better instincts on things like this… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/44 "2010-01-19T19:53:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Ugly. Surly. Stupid. Drunk, about half the time. He was asking about the _dog_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/45 "2010-01-19T19:58:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Got my house, my kid, my dog and every dime I ever earned saying that **Bricker** never, for even one brief moment, truly believed that this was a genuine call for political corruption. You win that bet. And **Bricker’s** drunk surly dog. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/46 "2010-01-19T20:01:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Ugly. Surly. Stupid. Drunk, about half the time. Well, that being the case, I’ll concede the second point… but as much out of enlightened self-interest in avoiding the pooch as conviction on the truth of the matter. I absolutely believe that there are plenty of people that would happily cheat to get their guy in, and the only reason I don’t think this was a serious call for that was that it was made publicly. But even so, I have no trouble imagining that he might have said it hoping for some measure of cover, in the same way a mean person will offer a hurtful comment and, if called on it, claim he was joking. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/47 "2010-01-19T20:08:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …and the only reason I don’t think this was a serious call for that was that it was made publicly. So _you_ never believed that the call to cheat was serious, and yet you still posted this in Great Debates? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/48 "2010-01-19T20:10:07Z")
If I were in Massachusetts, I would completely do this. It’s not that I’m a bastard for killing democracy. It’s already dead, the Republicans killed it. They are completely at fault for the poison atmosphere within politics and they cannot be the only ones profiting from it. In general, after seeing Obama’s first year, I now subscribe to the rule that no Republican should ever be in power, anywhere. They make a mockery of “news” by lying at every chance about anything. Fox News is not so much a news channel than the right’s personal Goebbels TV. They lie about terrorist attacks, the number of and severity of, by saying there were no attacks during the Bush regime (except for 9-11, that didn’t count from the guy who was mayor of the city at the time, and the shoe bomber, and all those other attacks) and claim there were 3 under Obama. They mock rules of decorum and cry when others use it against them by yelling at Obama that he’s a liar, then whining when Alan Grayson points out their own policies will result in the deaths of their constituents. They elevate a conniving bitch to party leader, excuse her retarded brainlessness as “folksy” and give her a platform for her presidential run in 2012. Their oustered former leader Cheney openly questions and mocks Obama for every move. If he doesn’t respond immediately he’s too slow. If he does respond it’s not enough. If he researches a decision it’s giving comfort to our enemies. And they accuse him of not saying “terror” enough These are people who openly defied the official presidential policy by going to another country as Congressmen and telling the leader of these South American countries to ignore Hillary, ignore Obama, and listen to them instead. This used to be called treason but apparently it’s just policy differences now. Speaking of which, confessed torture and open mockery of not only international law and our own is now also deemed policy differences. Their most popular and influencial speaker just recently told people NOT to donate to a tragic disaster!! Who the fuck has ever said NOT to donate to something like this?? Their Congressmen openly and proudly declared they were going to obstruct at every turn and want the president to fail, when 5 years ago they were calling for treason charges to anyone who dared question anything the president did. And let’s not forget, these same congressmen just absolutely threw shit on any possibility of civilized bipartisanship by calling for their fucking god to strike dead a Senator so he can’t vote. These are not people you can reason with. These are not mere disagreements. The Republican party is filled to the their fucking overflowing brim with EVIL. They should never be allowed to hold power again. If I lived in Massachusetts, I would do anything it takes to prevent that guy from winning. I would elect a child molesting schizophrenic over a Republican any day. They do not deserve power, they cannot wield power, they will ALWAYS abuse power, and fuck, if the situation were reversed, they would do the same and 10 times worse and call it fair play. Ed Schultz should be commended for telling people to do that. Everybody voting Dem in Massachusetts should vote as many times as they can get away with. Go to different voting districts, pretend you forgot your ID. Impersonate Republican neighbors. Do not let another Republican into office, ever. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/49 "2010-01-19T20:10:20Z")
I just listened to his radio show, and he said that it was obviously just a throwaway hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/50 "2010-01-19T20:12:38Z")
Bless their hearts, they mean well. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/51 "2010-01-19T20:14:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So _you_ never believed that the call to cheat was serious, and yet you still posted this in Great Debates? No. > [@Bricker](#): > > Well, that being the case, I’ll concede the second point… but as much out of enlightened self-interest in avoiding the pooch as conviction on the truth of the matter. I absolutely believe that there are plenty of people that would happily cheat to get their guy in, and the only reason I don’t think this was a serious call for that was that it was made publicly. > > But even so, I have no trouble imagining that he might have said it hoping for some measure of cover, in the same way a mean person will offer a hurtful comment and, if called on it, claim he was joking. There is evidence for each proposition. I don’t think it’s obvious which is correct. That makes it a debatable proposition. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/52 "2010-01-19T20:15:32Z")
I’m going through the archives, and I’m having trouble finding **Bricker’s** thread condemning Limbaugh’s _Operation Chaos_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/53 "2010-01-19T20:18:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m going through the archives, and I’m having trouble finding **Bricker’s** thread condemning Limbaugh’s _Operation Chaos_. You might as well look for Faberge eggs stuck in Madonna’s vagina. It won’t stink as much as reading a bunch of old Bricker posts. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/54 "2010-01-19T20:29:15Z")
I think every time a Republican politician or TV/radio yapper or blogger who is at least as prominent as this guy, says something as stupid as this, we should start a thread in GD about how he’s not being denounced by the rest of the Republicans. Except such threads would quickly dominate the forum, squeezing everything else out. So for the sake of the Dope, let’s not. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/55 "2010-01-19T20:29:17Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > If I were in Massachusetts, I would completely do this. It’s not that I’m a bastard for killing democracy. It’s already dead, the Republicans killed it. They are completely at fault for the poison atmosphere within politics and they cannot be the only ones profiting from it… Fighting evil is only half the battle. Not becoming evil while you do it is the other half. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/56 "2010-01-19T20:32:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m going through the archives, and I’m having trouble finding **Bricker’s** thread condemning Limbaugh’s _Operation Chaos_. There are plenty of posts from me condeming Limbaugh. I was the OP on a thread condemning Coulter, too, just for extra credit. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/57 "2010-01-19T20:41:54Z")
I guess **Bricker** did eventually find one person willing to defend something even Schultz probably did not mean. (It’s always foolish to take the word of a talk radio windbag at face value.) I’m not seeing a debate here, but if **YogSosoth** wants to try defend electoral fraud, maybe it will become one. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/58 "2010-01-19T20:43:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Fighting evil is only half the battle. Not becoming evil while you do it is the other half. It’s not evil to prevent evil from coming into being. This analogy is 100% fitting and correct: If I were being attacked, it would be completely ok for me to defend myself with deadly force even though I cannot usually use deadly force. This is self-defense for the Constitution. The Republicans obviously don’t care about it, and would ruin it and destroy it when in power. Stopping that through any means necessary is ok. The Constitution can be preserved against this small hit. It cannot survive another 12 years of Republican Congressional rule nor 8 years of Palin. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/59 "2010-01-19T20:47:36Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > What’t the Great Debate? Maybe we can find some people who think election fraud is Okey Dokey somewhere. Ask and ye shall receive: > [@YogSosoth](#): > > Ed Schultz should be commended for telling people to do that. Everybody voting Dem in Massachusetts should vote as many times as they can get away with. Go to different voting districts, pretend you forgot your ID. Impersonate Republican neighbors. Do not let another Republican into office, ever. Is **YogSosoth** the only one who believes this, or merely the only one to actually commit to saying it without a ready “I was just joking” defense? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576/60 "2010-01-19T20:49:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I guess **Bricker** did eventually find one person willing to defend something even Schultz probably did not mean. (It’s always foolish to take the word of a talk radio windbag at face value.) I’m not seeing a debate here, but if **YogSosoth** wants to try defend electoral fraud, maybe it will become one. Really, **Marley**? You really believe that support for this idea is so razor thin that it borders on the absurd that even one person stepped up to say that it’s a good idea, that Republicans are so evil that keeping that out of office by any means necessary is on balance a good thing? Really? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheat-to-keep-republicans-from-winning-mass-senate-seat-says-msnbcs-schultz/525576.md?page=4)