# Checking to see if a legal/marketing term is common knowledge **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 24, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917 "2020-08-24T19:45:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/21 "2020-08-25T16:41:03Z")
Thank god. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/22 "2020-08-25T16:42:04Z")
I get this response from someone who is a laymen but I would hope to god my marketing department knows better than that. Describing something as the best if puffery and if we’re not willing to say we make the best product we’re screwed. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/23 "2020-08-25T16:48:53Z")
I think [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qNj-QFZbew) Monty Python sketch is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/24 "2020-08-25T16:55:41Z")
I think I first heard the word in relation to Trump and his boasts about the economy was growing “faster than ever before” and such. When journalists started fact checking those statements, other Republicans claimed they were “puffery” and no one could be expected to take them literally. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/25 "2020-08-25T17:36:26Z")
As a layman, I hear it as a pejorative. “It’s just puffery” is what you say when you’ve been caught telling a bald-faced lie, and want to make it seem like telling a bald-faced lie is somehow okay. If you were editing me, and said that one of my claims was “puffery,” I would definitely understand you to be saying, “That claim is bullshit, get rid of it.” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/26 "2020-08-25T17:41:45Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > As a layman, I hear it as a pejorative. “It’s just puffery” is what you say when you’ve been caught telling a bald-faced lie, and want to make it seem like telling a bald-faced lie is somehow okay. Not that I disagree, but at least in American English, I think it’s a pretty uncommon word, outside of its use by marketing professionals (as already described). ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/27 "2020-08-25T18:10:42Z")
It’s based on being exagerated enough that a reasonable person would not believe the claim. I don’t know if they still have them, but Jimmy John’s used to have radio commercials where the delivery guy would be showing up before you even hung up the phone. Obviously, that’s not possible, so it would be allowed without it being considered false advertising. If they said they’d be there in 5 minutes, that’s just this side of believable, and could be controversial. If they said 15, then I expect my sandwich in 15 minutes. So, you get the impression that they are fast, but without being given any kind of specific idea as to what that means, so no actual false claim. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/28 "2020-08-25T18:18:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, you get the impression that they are fast, but without being given any kind of specific idea as to what that means, so no actual false claim. I think this is the good type of marketing puffery. While it certainly meets the negatives people have mentioned in this thread I don’t think it’s bad to imply they are crazy fast. It seems like better marketing than attaching a time and getting into some of the issues pizza places did with the 30 minutes or free back in the 90s. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/29 "2020-08-25T18:33:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > It’s based on being exagerated enough that a reasonable person would not believe the claim. No, it isn’t. It can include lots of things that aren’t exaggerations, or false statements. It’s just clear that they are not provable factual claims. - It makes your hair bouncy and shiny! - We have the best home cookin’! - Our food is delicious. You’ll love it! - We’ll teach you using the easiest method - You’ll be on your way in a jiffy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/30 "2020-08-25T21:14:27Z")
[Puffery in Advertising | Overview & Examples - Lesson | Study.com](https://study.com/academy/lesson/puffery-in-advertising-definition-examples.html#:~:text=Advertising%20puffery%20is%20defined%20as,presume%20to%20be%20literally%20true). > [@](#): > > **Advertising puffery** is defined as advertising or promotional material that makes broad exaggerated or boastful statements about a product or service that are subjective (or a matter of opinion), rather than objective (something that is measurable), **and that which no reasonable person would presume to be literally true.** My bold. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/31 "2020-08-25T22:41:15Z")
What I’m disputing is that it’s always based on exaggeration, and the claim being made is so exaggerated that no one would believe it to be true. That is one way that a statement can be puffery, but not the only way. This is a legal definition cribbed from the internet. I can’t access a proper cite, but this one is on point, even if not the most definitive. (Moreso than one from [study.com](http://study.com), though, I think.) > [@](#): > > Puffing generally is defined as “exaggerated, vague, or loosely optimistic statements about a company that are deemed so immaterial and unworthy of reliance that they cannot serve as the basis for liability. The difference between a statement of fact and mere puffery rests in the specificity or generality of the claim." Phoenix Payment Solutions, Inc. v. Towner, 2009 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 91978 (D. Ariz. Oct. 2, 2009) From here: [https://definitions.uslegal.com/p/puffery/](https://definitions.uslegal.com/p/puffery/) “Exaggerated, vague, or loosely optimistic.” Difference based on specificity or generality. So, “We give you the best bang for your buck” = puffing. “50% more product than brand X for the same price” you’d need to be able to show your work. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/32 "2020-08-25T23:11:09Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Yep, that’s it. Basically we were debating between a phrase that has a legal definition but 99% of our competitors can use too or a phrase that sounds good but means nothing that most likely is unique to us. I was in marketing for a long, long time. I understood your meaning, but I might have discussed it further. Making a statement that all of your competitors can make is not helpful. Making a statement that is unique is, as long as you have a basis for saying it. So, this was puffery, but you acknowledge that it presented something unique. Could it be presented in a way that was more valid? ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/33 "2020-08-25T23:15:24Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I could go around being perplexed that so many people don’t know, say, that herbicides are pesticides. But I don’t, because I realize there’s more to be known than fits in any one person’s head, and I realize that different people know different things What? “Herbicides are pesticides”? What does this mean? As for puffery, I’ve not a marketing major, but worked in advertising for 30 years. I’ve always heard and used it as a pejorative. It even sounds like an insult – empty windy words. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/34 "2020-08-26T02:16:00Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > “Herbicides are pesticides”? What does this mean? It means what it says. And it’s something that it seems many people don’t know; many people think only insecticides are pesticides. Or just never thought about it. The point I was trying to make is that different people have different knowledge bases, and presuming that everyone knows even things that you take for granted as basic is often a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/35 "2020-08-26T02:21:51Z")
Are you saying that a weed is a “pest?" ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/36 "2020-08-26T02:25:28Z")
Yup. So is a fungus. Fungicides are also pesticides. This is technical terminology; just like the legal sense of “puffery” is technical terminology. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/37 "2020-08-26T02:26:44Z")
Is nomorobo a pesticide? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/38 "2020-08-26T02:32:54Z")
I don’t see how you’d get an EPA label on it. So probably not in the legal sense. In the metaphoric sense – sure, I’ll go along with that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/39 "2020-08-26T02:35:30Z")
So, to bring it back to the thread: Nomorobo, the best pesticide you will ever use! Acceptable puffery? I say yes. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917/40 "2020-08-26T12:48:07Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I was in marketing for a long, long time. I understood your meaning, but I might have discussed it further. Making a statement that all of your competitors can make is not helpful. Making a statement that is unique is, as long as you have a basis for saying it. So, this was puffery, but you acknowledge that it presented something unique. Could it be presented in a way that was more valid? Maybe. I’m just an engineer and certainly not a marketing expert. In my view we are legally required to make the exact same product as our competitors (think generic drugs). Where we are different is our quality standards for ingredients is higher than many of our competitors which we talked about elsewhere in the sales doc. In the case of these dueling phrases we’re looking to address a list of generic complaints that consumers have about the product category. In this case due to our ingredients we are indeed better then our competitors (at least a large part) but it is due to the ingredients again so I think of it as them trying to address it a different way. One of my jobs is to create a differentiatable product but it takes time so we’re also working on selling the generic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/checking-to-see-if-a-legal-marketing-term-is-common-knowledge/918917.md?page=3)