# Cheerleaders and Student Council members suspended for "inappropriate gestures" in class photo **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069 "2013-10-01T04:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/1 "2013-10-01T04:14:40Z")
MacArthur High in Irving, has recently suspended multiple students for “inappropriate gestures”. This group of students includes multiple cheerleaders, a rally squad member, and an officer in the student council. This unlikely bunch of gangbangers seem to have been suspended for bringing a new instagram meme called “white girl mobbin” to the school class photo. Specifically the panoramic class photo where they are allowed to pose freely and act silly. Examples of the behavior can be seen on one of the suspended student’s instagram channel at [Buy Instagram Followers | Real, Instant Delivery & Only $2.97](http://followgram.me/i/553940592074660015_47589581) Also at this student’s channel is a photo of the suspension notice. [Buy Instagram Followers | Real, Instant Delivery & Only $2.97](http://followgram.me/i/554497085962426685_47589581) The “inappropriate gesture” is a hand with the ring and middle fingers together and the first and pinky fingers splayed to make a stylized “w”. This seems to be a parody of gang signs which are rightfully banned in schools not because of the gestures themselves, but because of the overt connection to illegal activities and violence such displays invoke. Why the parody, which no one suggests is linked to any actual gangs or gang activity, would justify suspensions when used in a “silly” school photograph seems to be a question only the leadership of MacArthur can answer. I guess the question for the SDMB is, what defines an inappropriate gesture? Has there been a miscarriage of justice here? Or is the “silly” school panoramic photo one of those lines which must not be crossed and the administrator acted properly? Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/2 "2013-10-01T04:34:59Z")
Zero Tolerance - learn it, live it, loathe it. There is no such thing as “personal judgment” anymore - people are afraid to use their “common sense” in matters such as this, fearful of lawsuits and loss of job or other backlash, so they enforce a strict, by the book, no gray are policy based on what school-board level bureaucrats deem “appropriate”. This is the outcome of decades of “touchy feely” education methods and college-level courses that pump out educators who are more concerned with the esteem and feelings of their charges than actually teaching them something. It’s percolated up to the administrative levels now, and there’s no going back. Yes, it’s stupid. No, it’s not in the least bit surprising. And it’s only going to get worse. Seriously, even is she WERE flashing gang signs in a still photograph in a yearbook - what exactly would that hurt? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/3 "2013-10-01T04:49:52Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > There is no such thing as “personal judgment” anymore - people are afraid to use their “common sense” in matters such as this, fearful of lawsuits and loss of job or other backlash, so they enforce a strict, by the book, no gray are policy based on what school-board level bureaucrats deem “appropriate”. This is the outcome of decades of “touchy feely” education methods and college-level courses that pump out educators who are more concerned with the esteem and feelings of their charges than actually teaching them something. It’s percolated up to the administrative levels now, and there’s no going back. So touchy feely education concerned with self esteem and feelings produces teachers with black and white judgments. What? ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/4 "2013-10-01T04:50:42Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > So touchy feely education concerned with self esteem and feelings produces teachers with black and white judgments. What? Why yes, because we don’t want to offend anyone or to allow or enable any kind of activity that might offend anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/5 "2013-10-01T05:19:35Z")
The principal should be fired, and replaced with a simple Java program. Type in a phrase that includes the term “gang sign” and it returns “three day suspension”. Type in a phrase that includes “drug” and it returns “eight day suspension”. And so on. This way, you get all the benefits of employing a zero tolerance drone, without paying for any of those unused features like “reasoning” or “empathy”. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/6 "2013-10-01T06:44:43Z")
In the school where I taught, rigging an explosive over the piano just before a musical was to be performed rated an In-School Suspension until the teachers went over the Administrator’s head in protest. Then he got a three day suspension. Good thing he didn’t make the “W” sign. I think Zero Tolerance Policies suck. This one seems to be a violation of freedom of speech if it was a public school. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/7 "2013-10-01T06:49:38Z")
I didn’t see any man-to-man kissing in the photo -ooopss… wrong thread. OT, this is one of the things that mystify non-Americans. Now that I get it, I say “nuts.” ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/8 "2013-10-01T08:29:22Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Why yes, because we don’t want to offend anyone or to allow or enable any kind of activity that might offend anyone. But letting these students slide instead of applying the black and white text of the rules because they’re being “silly” or they’re middle class suburban white kids not connected to gangs at all is the kind of wishy washy touchy feely stuff you’re railing against. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/9 "2013-10-01T10:44:53Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > The “inappropriate gesture” is a hand with the ring and middle fingers together and the first and pinky fingers splayed to make a stylized “w”. This seems to be a parody of gang signs which are rightfully banned in schools not because of the gestures themselves, but because of the overt connection to illegal activities and violence such displays invoke. Why the parody, which no one suggests is linked to any actual gangs or gang activity, would justify suspensions when used in a “silly” school photograph seems to be a question only the leadership of MacArthur can answer. I’m like 90% with you. But I worry about the possibility that this policy would result in white kids getting different punishment from nonwhite kids for the exact same action. It’s important that a change to the policy that prevents suspension for these white kids ensures that black kids who did something similar also wouldn’t be suspended. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/10 "2013-10-01T13:03:22Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Zero Tolerance - learn it, live it, loathe it. > > There is no such thing as “personal judgment” anymore - people are afraid to use their “common sense” in matters such as this, **fearful of lawsuits** and loss of job or other backlash, so they enforce a strict, by the book, no gray are policy based on what school-board level bureaucrats deem “appropriate”. The bolded part is the real reason. > [@](#): > > This is the outcome of decades of “touchy feely” education methods and college-level courses that pump out educators who are more concerned with the esteem and feelings of their charges than actually teaching them something. It’s percolated up to the administrative levels now, and there’s no going back. No, you got it right the first time. It’s lawsuits. > [@](#): > > Seriously, even is she WERE flashing gang signs in a still photograph in a yearbook - what exactly would that hurt? It would hurt her when a member from a rival gang (or even the one she is (presumably) not a member of and dared to flash their sign) pops a cap in her. Especially in larger cities gangs in schools are a serious and growing problem. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/11 "2013-10-01T13:22:48Z")
Suspending a cheerleader for making letters with their bodies. What’s next, telling them to sit down and be quiet while there’s a game on? ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/12 "2013-10-01T13:24:40Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Why yes, because we don’t want to offend anyone or to allow or enable any kind of activity that might offend anyone. More like they don’t want to be held financially liable if something goes wrong. Or what the above poster said. There’s nothing else to zero tolerance policies than that. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/13 "2013-10-01T13:26:05Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > No, you got it right the first time. It’s lawsuits. Yeah, 90+% of the time when any administrator makes a “politically correct” outrageous ruling, it’s a fear of lawsuits, _justified or unjustified_, that inspires the move rather than any actual cultural motivation. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/14 "2013-10-01T13:39:50Z")
Or, you know, these upstanding kids who can handle cheering and Student Government postions can learn where the approriate lines are and make sure they stay on the correct side of them to avoid getting into trouble. Maybe behave like the responsible, rational people that **Werekoala** wants them to be treated like. Then they would not be in trouble, just like the rest of the kids in the picture who DID stay in the rules. And if they can’t follow the simple rules laid out by the school, maybe they should be forced to face the punishment perscribed and we should support the school for teaching them a valuable lesson. Just like everybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/15 "2013-10-01T13:59:35Z")
Could someone please explain what lawsuit they think the school was afraid of? I’ll accept that as a general reason for zero tolerance decisions but in this case it doesn’t make any sense. Nobody’s suing this school over a couple of kids making a dumb gesture in a photo. And it sounds _really_ dumb - ‘haha, we’re white and making gang signs, get it?’ - but probably not worth a suspension. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/16 "2013-10-01T14:06:46Z")
Somewhat similar as far as administrative idiocy. [Cheer uniforms too short.](http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/pinellas-schools-say-cheerleading-uniforms-are-dress-code-violations/2138440) > [@](#): > > But this year, as Pinellas high schools adopt stricter dress codes or simply step up enforcement, the uniforms aren’t flying during the school day. Not all parents are pleased. \*School issued \*uniforms. Too short to wear to class(long standing tradition) but not too short to wear in front of the spectators at the game. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/17 "2013-10-01T15:11:11Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Or, you know, these upstanding kids who can handle cheering and Student Government postions can learn where the approriate lines are and make sure they stay on the correct side of them to avoid getting into trouble. Maybe behave like the responsible, rational people that **Werekoala** wants them to be treated like. Then they would not be in trouble, just like the rest of the kids in the picture who DID stay in the rules. > > And if they can’t follow the simple rules laid out by the school, maybe they should be forced to face the punishment perscribed and we should support the school for teaching them a valuable lesson. Just like everybody else. Well sure. If these _teenagers_ had realized that made up, fake hand gestures were against the rules. Maybe all horse play should be zero tolerance too. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/18 "2013-10-01T15:16:23Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Somewhat similar as far as administrative idiocy. > [Cheer uniforms too short.](http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/pinellas-schools-say-cheerleading-uniforms-are-dress-code-violations/2138440) > \*School issued \*uniforms. > Too short to wear to class(long standing tradition) but not too short to wear in front of the spectators at the game. I wouldn’t expect them to be able to wear school-issued swimwear in the classroom, either. Or school-issued football pads. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/19 "2013-10-01T15:21:20Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > Well sure. If these _teenagers_ had realized that made up, fake hand gestures were against the rules. It’s a real hand gesture, apparently. It’s not a real gang sign. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069/20 "2013-10-01T15:28:13Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Yeah, 90+% of the time when any administrator makes a “politically correct” outrageous ruling, it’s a fear of lawsuits, _justified or unjustified_, that inspires the move rather than any actual cultural motivation. I don’t follow you. If you suspend these students, you’re almost certain to get sued. If you don’t, who’s going to sue you? There really isn’t a cause of action for “failing to suspend some students.” If you’re worried about getting sued later for _not_ suspending other students who do the same thing, then don’t suspend them either. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheerleaders-and-student-council-members-suspended-for-inappropriate-gestures-in-class-photo/670069.md?page=2)