# Cheese and pickle sandwich (British) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [June 28, 2022, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016 "2022-06-28T02:50:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/221 "2022-11-05T09:45:29Z")
When you do that, and don’t mention the original name, the exact same people complain that you stole the idea and didn’t mention the name. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/222 "2022-11-05T09:48:43Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > But Italian food is very much where changing an ingredient or two makes it a different dish with a different name, so I can see getting irked my stuff like putting peas and/or mushrooms with smoked bacon or ham in a dish and calling it “carbonara.” > > Perhaps my favorite clip in regards to that: Here’s a counterpoint: [https://youtu.be/v6o9TF3BYAQ](https://youtu.be/v6o9TF3BYAQ) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/223 "2022-11-05T14:23:14Z")
Well, no. No Italian is going to complain if you put peas and ham in a dish and not ever mention it being “carbonara” at any point. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/224 "2022-11-05T14:24:43Z")
I, of course, don’t disagree with anything Adam says there. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/225 "2022-11-05T14:26:53Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Well, no. No Italian is going to complain if you put peas and ham in a dish and not ever mention it being “carbonara” at any point. No, really, they do. It’s not at all uncommon for someone to complain (all at once): - What you’re making is actually called X, and you should have mentioned this - Also, you’re making it wrong ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/226 "2022-11-05T14:38:12Z")
My point solely being: there is nothing to be done that can stop this. It’s tempting to think: _If you just behave in this specific careful way, the complaints will cease._ They won’t. In fact. ‘if you just behave in this specific careful way’ is itself just a variation on ‘you’re doing it wrong’. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/227 "2022-11-05T14:44:11Z")
I guess I’ve been lucky then. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/228 "2022-11-05T14:48:23Z")
I hope I haven’t jinxed you ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/229 "2022-11-05T15:00:23Z")
I mean, to me, the pea, bacon, cream & whatever carbonara is so far afield of an Italian carbonara that no Italian would even be able to say for sure that carbonara was the original inspiration. Could be any of a number of dishes. But, sure, do whatever the heck you want with a dish. There’s no rules, nothing to stop you, and that’s how new dishes develop. I know to interpret words like “carbonara” very much contextually and liberally – I am definitely linguistically a descriptivist – but sometimes I just want a real classic carbonara, and I have to dig in the menus to figure out who does it the conventional way: with guanciale, eggs, percorino and/or parm, pepper, and little else. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/230 "2022-11-05T15:21:39Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Well, no. No Italian is going to complain if you put peas and ham in a dish and not ever mention it being “carbonara” at any point. Adam Ragusea’s extensive explanation addresses this point at about 28:00 when he says At 28 minutes: > “I think Italian people seem to have have a particular problem with losing perspective when it comes to food…. And I would venture to say that there is an element of small-mindedness to the contemporary collective Italian psyche, a parochialism that keeps Italy connected to its very proud past but also stymies Italy’s full integration into the dynamic global present.” [https://youtu.be/v6o9TF3BYAQ](https://youtu.be/v6o9TF3BYAQ) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/231 "2022-11-05T15:32:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > “I think Italian people have a particular problem with losing perspective when it comes to food.” I don’t think it’s uniquely Italian, though they are probably the most visible (and most stereotyped as acting this way.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/232 "2022-11-05T15:55:48Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > don’t think it’s uniquely Italian, though they are probably the most visible I don’t think it’s uniquely Italian in the sense that only Italian people behave like this. Howevee I do that there is justification to note that it is characteristically Italian in that it is a notable component of the broad Italian national identity. Not every Italian, but very common among Italians, and a characteristic that even Italians would recognize. I. Other words, it may be a stereotype but it’s not an unfair stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/233 "2022-11-05T15:57:48Z")
I’m in a mixed South Asian + East Asian family in the US and god help me, the level of preciousness about “authentic” Indian, Pakistani, Chinese and Vietnamese food makes me stabby sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/234 "2022-11-05T16:04:28Z")
In my household: "What are you cooking? “Stew” "What kind of stew? “Some kinda meat.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/235 "2022-11-05T17:31:19Z")
I think it’s probably true that different peoples have their own different ways of losing perspective. Food is only one possible domain in which people lose their shit, but it’s one that’s likely to spill over international borders. British people, for example, have a reputation for losing their shit over breaches of interpersonal etiquette, but the nature of that is such that it probably stays mostly local. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/236 "2022-11-15T16:36:49Z")
I tried the Branston pickle again, this time with a much stronger imported English cheddar. The pickle completely overpowers the flavor of the cheese. It feels like a waste of good cheese. Maybe I’d prefer the ones that are more finely chopped. Then it would possible to spread the pickle in a much thinner layer, thus making it easier to balance the cheese and pickle. > [@Mangetout](#): > > British people, for example, have a reputation for losing their shit over breaches of interpersonal etiquette Queuing! > [@pulykamell](#): > > No Italian is going to complain if you put peas and ham in a dish and not ever mention it being “carbonara” at any point. This, in itself, is an unreasonable position. It’s perfectly logical to continue using a name if you are making variations on a dish. And it’s also unreasonable to expect that someone is going to come up with a new name for every variation. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/237 "2022-11-15T16:51:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I tried the Branston pickle again, this time with a much stronger imported English cheddar. The pickle completely overpowers the flavor of the cheese. It feels like a waste of good cheese. I’m not sure it was ever really meant for ‘good cheese’. Cheap white bread, lump of supermarket cheddar, smear of branston, quick lunch job done. For me it’s up there with salad cream and lettuce sandwiches, which are DE-LIC-IOUS (at least when you’re 12 and just back from school) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/238 "2022-11-15T16:55:39Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This, in itself, is an unreasonable position. It’s perfectly logical to continue using a name if you are making variations on a dish. And it’s also unreasonable to expect that someone is going to come up with a new name for every variation. I disagree, but such is life. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/239 "2022-11-15T17:11:27Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I’m not sure it was ever really meant for ‘good cheese’. Cheap white bread, lump of supermarket cheddar, smear of branston, quick lunch job done. It would be a waste of bad cheese, too, if I can’t taste it at all over the pickle. That’s why I’m wondering whether the finer chopped version might balance better. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2022, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016/240 "2022-11-15T17:13:22Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It would be a waste of bad cheese, too, if I can’t taste it at all over the pickle. Strange, I found the interplay between the cheddar and the pickle to be amazing; I felt that each flavour complemented and elevated the other. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-and-pickle-sandwich-british/967016.md?page=13)