# "Cheese-eating surrender monkeys" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340 "2003-01-27T21:49:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/201 "2003-01-30T17:59:14Z")
I think I Need A feW more Capitol Letters in thAt Post, Eh? ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/202 "2003-01-30T18:04:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by particlewill \* > \*\* > > We don’t say C.E.S.M. out of some hatred. \*\* Ahhhh… a new acronym is born 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/203 "2003-01-30T18:11:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Francesca, I spent two years of my life in England, and I never saw more France-baiting than I saw when I was there. Almost all the English I knew Hated the French with a passion. Did I, at any point, accuse all of America as a country of being Francophobes? What is your point with this statement? I am not England. I am a person who lives in England. I do not represent the views of my entire country and I hope you do not pretend that your proudly ignorant views represent yours. ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/204 "2003-01-30T18:24:54Z")
Just as I never said that your views reflected those of all of your fellow countrypersons. What I AM saying, is that I saw far more serious hatred of the French there than I ever have here, and that you and those of your ilk are calling us out on the whole C.E.S.M. thing while way more serious bigotry, hatred and so-forth are everyday occurrences in Your country. What I find amusing about this is that the quote in question is from a show that stereotypes average white americans in the worst light. I am not proud if my ignorance. I hope to fight it. But when self-importaint fools aspire to preach to me and my countrymen the correct method of thinking about some third party, while far worse hatred continues in their own countries, I tend to be offended myself. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/205 "2003-01-30T18:26:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by particlewill \* > \*\* > I guess what I am trying to say, in my uninformed and clueless way is, that while in Ireland people are killing each other over whatever differences they might have, I don’t see too many Americans marching around France waving banners with “C.E.S.M.” on them and bombing French schools. So don’t go preaching tolerance to me, from there. \*\* Yeah, and why is Bono always yelling at us demanding peace? Shouldn’t he be yelling at the Head Irish Guy (Pres, PM, Governor???) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/206 "2003-01-30T19:48:20Z")
Il est étrange, mais même après le tout ceci, le souffle de mon chat sent toujours comme le fromage. Regards, Shodan le pistolet obèse et argent-affamé possédant l’Américain ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/207 "2003-01-30T20:21:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*Il est étrange, mais même après le tout ceci, le souffle de mon chat sent toujours comme le fromage. > > Regards, > Shodan le pistolet obèse et argent-affamé possédant l’Américain \*\* Oh yeah?! Well your cat can lick my balls!! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/208 "2003-01-30T20:28:57Z")
Lafayette, we are here. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Raven\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Raven\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Raven_1)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/209 "2003-01-30T20:29:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Francesca \* > \*\*God forbid someone should give a shit about another country. \*\* Precisely… Did France give a shit about the victims of Pan Am 103 when they forbade our sorties to Libya to pass through their airspace, indirectly contributing to the loss of an American FB-111, and more importantly, its crew? France has been buying off terrorists and trying to thwart actions against terrorist nations for years, and for what? So they can fucking feel IMPORTANT? So they can thumb their hair-laden noses at the eeevil American cultural imperialists and their le fast-food and their le eeficient eendustry. Oh, and the other benefit of preserving their precious asses from having to deal with terrorism themselves… Maybe the Algerians will give them a wake-up call. I hope not. -Rav ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/210 "2003-01-30T20:30:32Z")
Parbleu, mon vieux! Le souffle de mon chat sent toujours comme l’aliment du chats, mais tout les francaises sent comme un fromage mauvais. Rouquefort, peut-etre. ---
**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/211 "2003-01-30T20:38:06Z")
> [@](#): > > France has been buying off terrorists and trying to thwart actions against terrorist nations for years, and for what? So they can fucking feel IMPORTANT? So they can thumb their hair-laden noses at the eeevil American cultural imperialists and their le fast-food and their le eeficient eendustry. It’s possible to disagree with the actions of the French government without making offensive remarks about the entire population of France in a bad cod-French accent. Hair-laden noses? What the fuck is that about? ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/212 "2003-01-30T21:16:24Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Neurotik_ > **You could, but it wouldn’t make any sense. Unless I’m mistaken, cowardly Americans jumping into sewers isn’t a funny stereotype. Much better would be something like going to Times Square to yell “Watch out for the planes!” and watching the Americans drop their burgers and shield themselves with flags. Or something along those lines. See how that works? We have the burger stereotype and the jingoistic flag-waving stereotype. The essence of high comedy.** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > \*\*Well, first of all, that’s not even a parallel joke, since that has nothing to do with a joke stereotype. A parallel joke about Americans would have something to do with a stereotype of Americans. > > Secondly, you need a sense of humour to make funny jokes. > > Some jokes are funny. Some are not. This may amaze you, but sometimes one joke is funny and another is not even when they bear certain similarities. Some jokes can be offensive AND funny. Some jokes are offensive and are not funny. It depends on the context and that ever-elusive sense of humour thing. . \*\* I hate to break this to you, but a large part of this world does believe that Americans are cowards. All Americans. It’s a very popular stereotype, particularly in the Middle East. I’m amazed you’re not aware of this. Of course, another popular stereotype is that we’re largely ignorant of world affairs… And IMHO, neither joke was funny. To group together a people by race, religion or _nationality_, and make fun of a tragic history, is so inanely stupid and insensitive that it seems silly to argue the point. To say that all French share the same views and beliefs is so ridiculously ignorant of human nature it leaves me speechless. Do you think that all Americans support Bush and the war? Think we all like to kill our convicts? Are overweight? Jingoistic? (Take a quick look around the boards if you want to see the diversity of opinions held by Americans.) And I’d like to know how many of you have ever been to France or spent time with French people. I lived there for a year and loved it. Sure there are assholes there - but there are assholes everywhere. There are also some amazing, wonderful people…in fact, most of the people I met were great. Unfortunately, some idiots like to perpetuate a silly, archaic stereotype, so the whole country gets a bad rap. Thank God no one on a message board dedicated to fighting ignorance would spread such nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/213 "2003-01-30T21:28:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Is it ok if I call you a “Yankee Imperialist Scum”? That’s just not an effective insult. As much as Americans hate the Yankees they have a tradition of excellence and are the best team in baseball history. If you really wanted to insult someone then you should pick something really historically pathetic to compare them to. Try “Cub imperialist scum” or " Red Sox capitalist pig" ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/214 "2003-01-30T21:44:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lizard \* > \*\*I think Falco would disagree. > > Rock me, Amadeus! 😛 \*\* Falco’s Austrian. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Raven\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Raven\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Raven_1)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/215 "2003-01-30T22:35:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Francesca \* > \*\*It’s possible to disagree with the actions of the French government without making offensive remarks about the entire population of France in a bad cod-French accent. Hair-laden noses? What the fuck is that about? \*\* This being the Pit, I try to keep an approximate 80/20 content to rubber chicken ratio 🙂 The French government has put a lot of stock in nativist, xenophobic attempts to promote their cultural superiority. The primary target of these efforts is American pop culture, which the French see as anathema to the preservation of their culture. Perhaps they have the right idea; I would probably agree with a lot of their observations. The sad part is that the approach that they take is blatantly negative. These negative ideas about America are not only promoted as the truth, but the nastiest of these ideas filter back to America, where they poison the perception that Americans have of the French. BTW, I didn’t address my previous post to the “entire population of France”, but to its government. Please re-read it. My apologies for not making myself entirely clear, it’s hard when you’re trying to type with a bad cod 😛 -Rav ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/216 "2003-01-30T22:52:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The\_Raven \* > \*\*Precisely… > > Did France give a shit about the victims of Pan Am 103 when they forbade our sorties to Libya to pass through their airspace, indirectly contributing to the loss of an American FB-111, and more importantly, its crew? > -Rav \*\* …did the United States give a shit when France blew up the Rainbow Warrior in New Zealand sovereign waters? Bollocks they did. The least that we expected was diplomatic support from our allies over an act of international terrorism-instead, through pressure from our so-called-allies we were forced to give the terrorists back to France, lest we suffer trade sanctions. Fair play? Bollocks. Red herring that has nothing to do with this debate? Sure is… ---
**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/217 "2003-01-30T22:57:22Z")
Lets not turn this into an anti-America thread. I’d rather it wasn’t an anti-any-entire-country thread. That was my whole point. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/218 "2003-01-30T23:00:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Francesca \* > \*\*Lets not turn this into an anti-America thread. I’d rather it wasn’t an anti-any-entire-country thread. That was my whole point. \*\* …I agree. I was just countering Raven’s point-that I considered to be a red herring in this debate… ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/219 "2003-01-30T23:02:54Z")
Ummm…whats the question again? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5ac83/32.png) [@The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mad_Hermit)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/220 "2003-01-31T00:08:01Z")
The quote in question was just on TV. Now Lisa’s talking to Bleeding Gums Murphy. But I’m just another ugly American for the French to hate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340.md?page=12)