# "Cheese-eating surrender monkeys" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340 "2003-01-27T21:49:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Anahita](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9a28c/32.png) [@Anahita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anahita)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/261 "2003-02-04T22:15:42Z")
Just to make a point, from way back when: /hijack, for clarification’s sake To **WeirdDave** , I can ASSURE you, there is a great deal of documented anti-Arab racism in France. Please ask **andygirl** if you want confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/262 "2003-02-05T02:08:04Z")
quote: “I can’t belive this. France captured practically all of Europe in the Napoleonic wars while fighting a country that defeated the US without any difficulty at the same time. In The Franco/Preussian war the Germans had higher casualties than France. In WW2 France were beaten by a new tactic like the US at Pearl harbour. And if the french are surrender monkeys then the US is too for surrendering in the Phillipines.” I’ve stood w/ y’all up to now…I don’t go around calling other people names or being ignorant and justifying it with someone else’s ignorance. So, please don’t get me started. I could say \ hmm-hmm…restraint…okay. The US and France have been allies from waaaay back, we have supported each other even when the rest of the world told us both to fuck off. We appreciate the birthday present in the harbor, you know that big statue that the world acknowledges as a symbol of America’s freedom. We also appreciate the military support, munitions and finances back in the days when we were seeking independence. If we have repaid that debt by coming to you in your times of need. Then let’s just say, “you’re welcome”. If someone feels that a country who has been through more shit…over the past millenium, than most people even realize. A country who has suffered losses in the millions due to war, famine, and plague. A country who is geographically, a hell of a lot closer to the Middle East than a lot of other countries. A country without the military finances as some…etc. You get the point! If you can in all honesty call a country who literally overran their own government and executed it’s overbearing monarchs and declared itself a free nation while aiding the US in it’s own revolution, a bunch of cowards, then I would like to meet your ferocious ass. and if these people who have in the past, been a brave, passionate and intelligent people have decided to wait until they get more proof. Then guess what mother f----er, they are entitled to it. BUT…don’t start badmouthing my ass too goddamned much either, I have limits to the amount of bullshit I can take too. Peace ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/263 "2003-02-05T14:19:26Z")
C’mon, now—nothing brings folks together like a good old-fashioned sing-a-long! "Hey, hey, we’re ze monkeys And we love to eat ze cheese! But we’re a bunch of sissies, So do not invade us, please! We’re all scared of ze Germans— Zey want to come and take our brie! So we will wave ze white flag As we swing by our tails from ze tree!" ---
**Author:** ![Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misery_Loves_Co)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/264 "2003-02-05T14:59:13Z")
In the interest of better illuminating the hilarity of this stereotype, I submit [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2942796#post2942796) post by **Buck the Diver** in the [Screw France](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=160754) thread. \ Clearly no one takes the stereotype seriously - certainly not to the point of using it as the cite against someone’s assertion that the French have courage. . . \ ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/265 "2003-02-05T17:20:41Z")
I also had no idea that people took the surrender monkey stereotype seriously. For me, it was a funny phrase. Ha, ha! When **t-keela** says, “What makes it worse is the fact that most of these people don’t seem to recognize the harm they inflict by spreading this shit around,” I agree. I DON’T recognize the harm that the phrase inflicts. I DON’T imagine that there’s French Person #1 who’s lost a job, or been beat up, or been ostracized from friends, because of the phrase, “Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys.” So if someone could explain the harm that the phrase inflicts, I’d be much obliged. That’s very different, to me, than the stereotype of French people as cowards. Taking the stereotype seriously seems to cause problems: note the [noises from the Pentagon that France is being ostracized from NATO](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=160874). That’s some fucked up shit, and I wonder if the stereotype contributes to it. Look, I’m way to the Left of the French government. I went through high school and college idolizing the Situationist movement in French universities in the late '60s. I think France is a lovely country. My dream is to open up a burrito shop along the Cote D’azure. At the same time, when Michael Moore did a piece on TV Nation where he was looking for a new enemy to take the place of the Soviet Union, and he offered three choices (Belize; France; or no new enemy, and spend the money on our school systems instead), and the telephone poll came back overwhelmingly voting for France as our new enemy, I thought it was brilliant television. Cheese eating surrender monkeys makes me laugh. There’s a difference between snarky humor and real stereotypes. My brother, a fellow Appalachian, will (when discussing where we live) sometimes slip into a twangy drawl and say, “Honey, if we ever get divorced, will you still be my sister?” It’s funny. A friend of mine from rural North Carolina used to joke about how he had more of a family braid than a family tree. It was funny. But if someone took it seriously – if my friend were denied a job because of his Southern accent – it wouldn’t be funny, and would be worth attacking. I guess I don’t see as solid a connection between silly phrases and real discrimination as other folks see. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/266 "2003-02-05T17:51:20Z")
I’m just going to give this example and then I’ll drop this goddamned thread. It’s not funny, I won’t use it as a joke…I apologize to those who WILL find it offensive. If you are so thick, you don’t get it…then there’s no sense wasting any more of my time. Do you think the term “porch monkey, or jungle bunny” is funny? I’m outta here… ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/267 "2003-02-05T17:59:47Z")
The connection exists when the line separating them becomes blurred in peoples’ heads. And that happens when the joke get’s said again and again and again and that is all that is ever mentioned about the group involved and nobody ever just says, “Stop! This _isn’t reality_” I think that we’ve amply demonstrated that is the case in this circumstance. And if you still doubt it then go look at **k2dave’s** “Screw France” thread. When the only thing you know about a country is the stereotype, the stereotype is what you’re going to believe in as reality. pan ---
**Author:** ![Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misery_Loves_Co)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/268 "2003-02-05T18:24:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > \*\*I also had no idea that people took the surrender monkey stereotype seriously. For me, it was a funny phrase. Ha, ha! > > I guess I don’t see as solid a connection between silly phrases and real discrimination as other folks see. > \*\* **Daniel** - Check the links in my post for at least one clear example where someone’s silly phrase has turned into another’s footnote. **kabbes** hit the nail on the head. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/269 "2003-02-07T13:13:02Z")
**[Holy hypocrisy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=161346&perpage=50&pagenumber=1), Batman!** ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/270 "2003-02-08T03:07:36Z")
I just read this whole thread. And I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s too much material in here to flame. So I’ll just say that I laughed my ass off when I first heard Groundskeeper Willy say “Cheese eating surrender monkeys”, and that I despise wide-spread stereotyping of _any_ nationality on the other hand as well. I don’t mind if you occasionally mock me for my nationality - it’s not that important to me. But when mocking my nationality is all you do, one has to wonder what your motivation is. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/271 "2003-02-08T13:35:12Z")
Uh-oh, Mike Myers better watch out! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/272 "2003-02-10T09:27:27Z")
Schmoke and a waffle? ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/273 "2003-02-10T13:31:03Z")
You dont need to call the french C.E.S.M they seem to be willing to scream it to the world without anyone elses help ThankYouVeryMuch. God the french government is annoying as hell. [www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/18/iraq/main537096.shtml](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/18/iraq/main537096.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/274 "2003-02-10T13:34:17Z")
Could someone shoot this thread, please? ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/275 "2003-02-10T13:38:38Z")
Its fine when you want to jepordize your own countries fate because of your pacifism, but lets not drag the neighbors down too and put thier nations well being at risk because you dont have any balls yourself. ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/276 "2003-02-10T13:41:52Z")
Michael…someone been holding a gun to your head and making you read threads again? ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/277 "2003-02-10T13:45:42Z")
Besides you dont need to shoot this thread. Just try speaking german to it. It will close itself then ask you what other threads you would like closed as well. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/278 "2003-02-10T13:58:42Z")
:sigh: ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/279 "2003-02-10T14:12:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\*:sigh: \*\* To be honest, this thread should remain open, as it’s doing a good job of drawing the xenophobic arse biscuits out of the woodwork. ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/280 "2003-02-10T14:16:53Z")
jjimm there is nothing xenophobic about being pissed off that the French government wont help its own ALLY during what by all reasonable accounts \ will be a major war RIGHT on its borders in days or weeks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340.md?page=15)