# "Cheese-eating surrender monkeys" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340 "2003-01-27T21:49:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/61 "2003-01-28T12:48:47Z")
This is too much ado about a _Simpsons_ reference. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/62 "2003-01-28T12:49:33Z")
because you know him and it is a joke between the two of you. However, would you go into a thread where people were complaining about the casual labelling of french people as “surrender monkeys” because of the eactions of their countries military 50 years ago, and then start doing EXACTLY what the OP was complaining about? Look, I’m not some ultra sensitive PC ass clown, I just see the constant bashing of France on these boards as a little unnecessary and the behaviour of some people in this thread to be a bit jerkish. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/63 "2003-01-28T12:51:05Z")
Spooje, Its not really the Simpsons reference, but the prevailent implication it has taken on. ---
**Author:** ![Tomcat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Tomcat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tomcat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/64 "2003-01-28T12:57:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*Is it ok if I call you a “Yankee Imperialist Scum”? > > There are a lot of jerks in this thread, because the OP raised a point about stereotyping and bigotry, and people instead of addressing the issue go straight into doing exactly what she was complaining about? > > Its not the words, its the implication thats the problem. \*\* Go ahead and call me that. Doesn’t really affect me. I look at it as a silly comment that has some connotations derived from historical perspectives that are based in truth. In fact, I would probably agree with it to an extent…Do you know how many McDonald’s there are in the former Soviet Union? We won! We Won! If you hadn’t noticed, most jokes make fun of someone directly or indirectly. They make light of serious situations and often help in the process of recovering from them (I believe today is the anniversary of the Space Shuttle disaster…“No, I said Bud Light!”). But that is what they are…jokes. But possibly the reason you are hearing more of it lately is because people are using it in the context of “history repeats itself.” The French are not really proving themselves to be much more than the surrender monkeys that people are accusing them of. They have opposed most everything we have done since 9/11. “You should OBSERVE the situation in Afganistan. PATROL the borders until you know more. ECONOMIC incentives for the Taliban should be considered before war.” and now with Iraq and their dreams of one day getting Saddam to finally understand their positions and come to a peaceful resolution…uhhh, no. It ain’t gonna happen. He has raised his many sons to pick-up where he left off and continue the old games he has always played. He and his ilk need to go buh-bye-bye… So, my take on it is this: it is a stereotypical joke that hits a little too close to home. It is succinct and unfortunately all too accurate. When they prove themselves to be more than just sideline naysayers, THEN I will stop using it. Until then, if the shoe fits… -Tcat ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/65 "2003-01-28T13:04:46Z")
Christ on a crotch. There is an enormous difference between surrender to an aggressor and a belief that all peaceful avenues should be explored before force is used, you fucking warmonger. No offense. pan ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/66 "2003-01-28T13:23:41Z")
> [@](#): > > They have opposed most everything we have done since 9/11. So What? they are an independent country. Why should they blindly follow the US like lapdogs? > [@](#): > > “You should OBSERVE the situation in Afganistan. PATROL the borders until you know more. ECONOMIC incentives for the Taliban should be considered before war.” What, like The US did when it was the Mujahadeen? > [@](#): > > He has raised his many sons to pick-up where he left off and continue the old games he has always played. He and his ilk need to go buh-bye-bye… Just like ol’ 41. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/67 "2003-01-28T13:25:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*Look, I’m not some ultra sensitive PC ass clown, I just see the constant bashing of France on these boards as a little unnecessary and the behaviour of some people in this thread to be a bit jerkish. \*\* There are three times in my life when I’ve heard this phrase. One was on the Simpsons. The other two were in pit threads about the _constant_ use of this phrase to bash the French. Were it not for these threads, I would forgotton the phrase already. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/68 "2003-01-28T13:31:20Z")
Well, **spooje** , regardless of the use of the phrase or not, it certainly seems that the attitudes behind it are alive and well. Goddamn unpleasant burger-eating jingoistic xenophobes. And I have an American aunt! And friend! So I can say that without fear of offense! pan ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/69 "2003-01-28T13:32:52Z")
spooje, its not the phrase, its the attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/70 "2003-01-28T13:39:51Z")
Spooje, I know you read the boards more than that. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158885](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158885) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80072](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80072) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109397](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109397) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127125](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127125) (by **lno** again, in fact) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63502](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63502) (hi lno!)) ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/71 "2003-01-28T13:55:36Z")
Unclench your sphincters and repeat after me: IT’S A FUCKING JOKE. One of the funniest things about stereotypes is how ridiculous they are. That’s why they make such good jokes. _Of course_ French people aren’t monkies that sit around eating cheese and waving white flags. _Of course_ Swiss people don’t hump chocolate. _Of course_ all Russians aren’t commie bastards. Saying those kinds of things paints a ridiculous picture in your head and makes you laugh. Jesus christ, I think the fact that you people take this seriously says more about you then it does about the people making the jokes. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/72 "2003-01-28T13:56:32Z")
Any fool can learn to win graciously. The true test of charactor is, can you lose and not hold a grudge ? Can you lose and still not let it diminish your confidence and self-belief ? Can you lose and still respect your enemies ? Can you lose and realise you were wrong and your enemy was right to defeat you ? The US has not lost much in its entire history, it has not been invaded or occupied for longer than anyone has been alive. The last, and only,time it lost, the scar in it’s collective psyche still ran deep and still informs its military planning in a way that hog ties its military leaders, casualties and long drawn out conflicts are politically unacceptable, even if the cause is just. America does not know how to lose, and lacks a sense of humility as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/73 "2003-01-28T13:58:26Z")
Weren’t we invaded by the British in 1812? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/74 "2003-01-28T13:59:34Z")
Sorry, missed the ‘longer than anyone has been alive’ part. Forget I said anything. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/75 "2003-01-28T13:59:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*because you know him and it is a joke between the two of you. > > However, would you go into a thread where people were complaining about the casual labelling of french people as “surrender monkeys” because of the eactions of their countries military 50 years ago, and then start doing EXACTLY what the OP was complaining about?\*\* The problem with your claims is that **there’s no “Casual labelling” going on here.** Nobody is “casually labeling” the French as “cheese-eating surrender monkeys” - it’s very obviously an over-the-top joke. There’s a very substantial difference between casual labelling and outright gags. To use an example, consider the casual labelling French-Canadians have faced in Canada - “frogs” and, a few decades back, “papists” were common ones. Those were insidious terms that genuinely created a divide. No joke was meant. I’ve never heard of anyone just casually use “cheese-eating surrender monkeys” in conversation. not on these boards and not in real life. Who the hell actually uses this long, convoluted phrase as a casual reference? What planet does that happen on? BTW, I’m Canadian, and descended from Irish, German, and French stock. In other words, I’m a boring whitebread Canuck, and the French-German-Irish thing means I surrender to myself and then I drink to forget about it. So go right ahead and take your best shot. Oh, I’m Catholic, too, that should be good for a few gags. Did you hear the one about the doctor, the lawyer, and the priest on a sinking ship? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/76 "2003-01-28T14:00:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by casdave \* > \*\*…America does not know how to lose, and lacks a sense of humility as a result. \*\* There is a difference between a healthy amount of humility, and the current inferiority complex that certain Continentals have. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/77 "2003-01-28T14:04:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cisco \* > **Unclench your sphincters and repeat after me: IT’S A FUCKING JOKE.** Of course it is, you smelly, unpleasant, burger-munching, jingoistic xenophobe! > [@](#): > > \*\*One of the funniest things about stereotypes is how ridiculous they are. That’s why they make such good jokes. _Of course_ French people aren’t monkies that sit around eating cheese and waving white flags. _Of course_ Swiss people don’t hump chocolate. _Of course_ all Russians aren’t commie bastards.[/b Of _course_ Americans are smelly and unpleasant and don’t sit around munching burgers. Apparently quite a few are rather jingoistic and xenophobic, mind. > [@](#): > > \*\* Saying those kinds of things paints a ridiculous picture in your head and makes you laugh.\*\* Ho ho ho. Let’s all march on with more racist humour shall we? Who’s got the jokes about black people? > [@](#): > > \*\*Jesus christ, I think the fact that you people take this seriously says more about you then it does about the people making the jokes. \*\* personally I think that it says quite a lot about both. And I know which camp I’d rather be in. But this is fun! **Cisco** doesn’t mind being called names! Who else wants a go? Ya wife-beating, child-molesting skunk. Of course you aren’t really a skunk! And you don’t really beat your wife or molest children! But I’m going to call you it anyway. Because it’s funny! pan ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/78 "2003-01-28T14:07:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*This is too much ado about a _Simpsons_ reference. \*\* Sometimes people are just itching for a fight. Even a pathetic one, if that’s all they can find. This “fight” was pathetic. Oh, and from a History Channel standpoint while we did save the French’s bacon twice, we still owed them for the American Revolution, and they gave that nifty statue in New York Harbor. And the basis for much of California’s first vineyards. So call it a push. To the OP-- whooooooooooosh! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/79 "2003-01-28T14:08:05Z")
[footnote]\* Of course Americans _aren’t_ smelly and unpleasant.[/footnote] Rather lost the effect there, what with that and the screwed up coding. Ah well. At least I had fun with the name-calling. pan ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/80 "2003-01-28T14:09:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kabbes \* > **Of course it is, you smelly, unpleasant, burger-munching, jingoistic xenophobe!** I think it would be interesting to see the reaction if this joke were used whenever the US is mentioned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340.md?page=5)