# "Cheese-eating surrender monkeys" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340 "2003-01-27T21:49:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/81 "2003-01-28T14:09:19Z")
The French feel inferior ? They do a good job of not showing it, they have this way of _looking down_ at everything not Gallic. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/82 "2003-01-28T14:09:22Z")
Whooooosh yourself, **elf**. Apparently _you_ don’t realise that bigotry and attitude runs a lot deeper than one simple phrase. pan ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/83 "2003-01-28T14:13:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Sometimes people are just itching for a fight. Even a pathetic one, if that’s all they can find. This “fight” was pathetic. Thanks for your validation. I’ll be sure to check with you in future what is a valid cause for debate or not. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/84 "2003-01-28T14:14:31Z")
God forbid anybody ever makes a fucking joke, especially not about :gasp: _black people_. I mean, some things - like _black people_ - are just way to solemn and serious to joke about. :rolleyes:. Kabbes, I may be a jingoistic xenophobe (what a contrived term), but you sir, are a fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/85 "2003-01-28T14:18:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cisco \* > \*\*Kabbes, I may be a jingoistic xenophobe (what a contrived term), but you sir, are a fucking idiot. \*\* And you clearly don’t know **kabbes**. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/86 "2003-01-28T14:22:12Z")
There have been a couple of references to what the French did “fifty years ago”. That would be 1953. Are we talking about Indochina? If so, the French should have surrendered a lot sooner, and given up the idea of being a colonialist power. If we’re talking about being invaded by the Germans, that would be sixty-three years ago. That’s when the French lost 90,000 men trying to hold back the Blitzkrieg. Of course, their movies do tend to run about half an hour too long. (Several times I’ve watched a French movie, and found myself saying, “Gee, I could swear the movie ended half an hour ago, yet these neurotic people are still moving around on the screen.”) ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/87 "2003-01-28T14:25:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*And you clearly don’t know **kabbes**. \*\* No, I don’t. And if this thread is any indication I don’t want to know him or her. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/88 "2003-01-28T14:25:18Z")
What is the battle cry of the French Army? Retreat! [sub]obligatory reference to being more than 50% French heritage, as if it should matter[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/89 "2003-01-28T14:26:46Z")
Wait a sec…why are all the Brits defending the French? I mean, didn’t you guys fight umpteen different wars against them (not to mention burning Joan of Arc at the stake)? It seems to me that you lot should be damning Boney’s eyes and raising glasses of port to the Prince Regent and Wellington (of course, I also think you should be reading leaders in the Times about these newfangled Spinning Jennies, speculating on what the Prince Regent will do about his failing marriage to Caroline of Brunswick, and rushing out to the shops to pick up a copy of that Miss Austen’s latest novel. :D). ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/90 "2003-01-28T14:32:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cisco \* > \*\*No, I don’t. And if this thread is any indication I don’t want to know him or her. \*\* Let’s see… he’s speaking out against perpetuation of bigoted stereotypes, by illustrating what that bigotry looks like in reverse, and you take a dislike to him? Odd behaviour, but still, each to their own. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/91 "2003-01-28T14:34:15Z")
I dunno. I do remember that, given half a chance, the French go like a fight. For example, they did lose 1.2 million in WW1 from a population of 30-ish million (more than the UK, for example). That’s the equivalent of the US losing 10 million in a modern day conflict ……rather puts the 56,000 US Vietnam deaths in a different context. But yeah, I agree, different era’s, etc… It’s all a load of baloney, anyway, IMHO. Just thought I’d add something. I like the French rather a lot. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/92 "2003-01-28T14:35:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > \*\*Why are the streets of Paris lined with trees? \*\* _“So the Germans won’t have to march in the sun the next time.”_ -Argus Hamilton ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/93 "2003-01-28T14:36:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*Thanks for your validation. I’ll be sure to check with you in future what is a valid cause for debate or not. \*\* Thanks, I will be sure to use small words for you. kabbes- fucking spare me ok? I am not sure what you malfunction is, and frankly I don’t really care. There is plenty of real honest to goodness racism and discrimination to decry that it turns my stomach to see this equivicated to it in any way, shape or form. After watching the st@rm fr@nt (sorry- did that to avoid their searches :rolleyes: ) people come here and helping fight their despicable brand of hatred it is sad that someone would even \*\*try \*\* to imply that their little peeve rises to the same sort of complaint. It is spitting the face of all those who have suffered real racism and bigoty. You should be fucking ashamed of yourself. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/94 "2003-01-28T14:37:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*Let’s see… he’s speaking out against perpetuation of bigoted stereotypes, by illustrating what that bigotry looks like in reverse, and you take a dislike to him? Odd behaviour, but still, each to their own. \*\* I think the point of arguement here is whether or not these stereotypes are truly bigoted. He chooses to look at them as intolerant and/or hateful, I choose to look at them as a harmless laugh. If I truly felt that these jokes were bigoted there would be no disagreement between Kabbes and I. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/95 "2003-01-28T14:41:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kabbes \* > \*\* > > Let’s all march on with more racist humour shall we? > \*\* So now the French are a race? ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/96 "2003-01-28T14:41:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*Is it right to label an entire nation based on wether their military was good or not since Napoleon? Do you look down with distain on every french person because you “Saved their ass” back in World War II? Does it give you bragging rights? > \*\* 1. Yes. 2. Yes, _and_ World War I 3. Oui’. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/97 "2003-01-28T14:44:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cisco \* > \*\*If I truly felt that these jokes were bigoted there would be no disagreement between Kabbes and I. \*\* I feel they are, and clearly so does **kabbes**. There are certain groups in society about whom it used to be completely OK to use bigoted stereotypes about. For the most part, this has been eradicated by the PC brigade (which I admit, has gone way too far). But the point of these stereotypes is that the bigotry was perpetuated with jokes. Polacks in the US (they’re all stupid, yeah, HEY, IT’S A JOKE), the Irish in England (stupid, drunken terrorists. HEY, IT’S A JOKE.). Now it’s the French. I really can’t see the difference. **5-HT** [yes, they are](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=race). ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/98 "2003-01-28T14:44:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 5-HT \* > \*\*So now the French are a race? \*\* The French are a _funny_ race… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/99 "2003-01-28T14:45:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baldwin \* > There have been a couple of references to what the French did “fifty years ago”. That would be 1953. Are we talking about Indochina? If so, the French should have surrendered a lot sooner, and given up the idea of being a colonialist power. Well, they _did_ take one hell of a beating at Dienbienphu (1954). ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340/100 "2003-01-28T15:01:57Z")
Well **Cisco** is right about one thing at least. He does _not_ want to know me. I’m most bemused that those who think that it is funny to call the French “cheese-eating surrender monkeys” are getting bent out of shape by me calling them “smelly, unpleasant burger-munching jingoistic xenophobes”. Surely if the former is funny then the latter must be even funnier? Especially given that it is rooted in more recent events than the latter. So why the fuss? And, **elf** , my problem is the fact that there are many for whom such a phrase is _not_ a joke but a description of reality. Such people are amply demonstrated in this damn thread - check out **tomcat** as an example. Others joking in such a fashion - even if they themselves do not mean it - perpetuates and legitimises such attitides. If you cannot see this then you have a very narrow perception of consequence indeed. As for the question of whether I am a fucking idiot or not - I have no dog in the fight. I am who I am. Those who perceive structured argument, illustration and rhetoric for effect as stupidity can enjoy their little belief. No skin off my nose. pan pan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/151340.md?page=6)