# "Cheesecake" origins (nudity) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 21, 2015, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheesecake-origins-nudity/720479 "2015-05-21T05:42:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheesecake-origins-nudity/720479/1 "2015-05-21T05:42:35Z")
I couldn’t find anything on a quick Google search. Anyone know the etymology of “cheesecake” being used to describe female (upper) nudity? And does it predate beefcake? (I assume “beef” refers to muscles, but tell me if I’m wrong.) ---
**Author:** ![Saturn\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Saturn\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saturn_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheesecake-origins-nudity/720479/2 "2015-05-21T09:58:39Z")
As I understand it, cheesecake doesn’t refer to nudity, but rather to pin-up girls. As for etymology, nothing definitive. I’ve heard anything from comparing the model’s exposed legs to creamy white cheesecake, to the photos of the girls being hailed as, “Better than cheesecake”. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheesecake-origins-nudity/720479/3 "2015-05-21T10:20:59Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheesecake-origins-nudity/720479/4 "2015-05-21T10:35:00Z")
There are several theories - this seems the most likely (and well researched). > [@](#): > > Curiously, the term “cheesecake,” in connection with a beautiful woman, seems like a fairly recent term. It has a kind of a 1920s or '30s sound to it. But no, cheesecake was used in Britain in the 1660s! Even then, the term was used to describe overly sexy or promiscuous women. > > It can be found in Poems and Songs Relating to the Late Times, published in 1662. Shortly after Oliver Cromwell died, it was used to regret the occasion of Cromwell driving certain ladies (of questionable repute) out of the town: > > But ah! It goes against our hearts, > To lose our cheesecake and our tarts. > [@](#): > > Fast forward to 1912, when James Kane, a photographer, was working for The New York Journal. One day James was posing an attractive young woman when a breeze blew her skirt up. When more leg than usual came on display, Mr. Kane (who reputedly loved cheesecake) exclaimed, “Wow! This is better than cheesecake!” > **[The Origins of the Terms Cheesecake and Beefcake](https://www.neatorama.com/2013/03/21/The-Origins-of-the-Terms-Cheesecake-and-Beefcake/)** > > Neatorama presents a guest post from actor, comedian, and voiceover artist Eddie Deezen. Visit Eddie at his website."Cheesecake" to describe a a sexy, attractive woman flaunting her appeal is nowadays a rather archaic term. Likewise "beefcake" in... ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheesecake-origins-nudity/720479/5 "2015-05-21T13:42:34Z")
I’ve never heard of this before, but it sure gives a weird new meaning to Louis Armstrong’s song “[Cheesecake](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w068PdDw0hs)” (“My giiiiirl looooves cheesecake!” “Cheesecake, munchin’ on the cheesecake…”) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheesecake-origins-nudity/720479/6 "2015-05-21T17:30:16Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I’ve never heard of this before, but it sure gives a weird new meaning to Louis Armstrong’s song “[Cheesecake](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w068PdDw0hs)” (“My giiiiirl looooves cheesecake!” “Cheesecake, munchin’ on the cheesecake…”) Also performed by the Muppets. At the end the cheesecake makes a run for the door. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheesecake-origins-nudity/720479/7 "2015-05-21T20:38:33Z")
This [Pin Up](http://www.jahsonic.com/PinUp.html) page gives the same anecdote as bob++'s site, but attributes it to a different photographer in 1915. > [@](#): > > The classic pin-up genre - cheesecake - fulfills our definition perfectly. Cheesecake (Which Webster defines as “photography displaying especially female comeliness and shapeliness”) is said to have gotten its name when, in September 1915, a newspaper photographer, George Miller, noticed a visiting Russian diva, Elvira Amazar, just as she was debarking her ship in New York. Miller asked the opera singer to hike up her skirt a little for the sake of the picture. Later, the photographer’s editor, something of a gourmet, is supposed to have exclaimed, “Why, this is better than cheesecake!”–Kevin Freeman , [http://www.mutoworld.com](http://www.mutoworld.com) [Jun 2004] Some poking around shows that the story seems to have been taken from Barry Popik, perhaps the dean of all modern etymologists. The James Kane version, however, is not some recent variation but probably the older story, having been known for decades. Famous quotes are frequently attributed to multiple people, but this is odd since neither person is now remembered. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheesecake-origins-nudity/720479/8 "2015-05-21T23:27:12Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > There are several theories - this seems the most likely (and well researched). > [The Origins of the Terms Cheesecake and Beefcake - Neatorama](http://www.neatorama.com/2013/03/21/The-Origins-of-the-Terms-Cheesecake-and-Beefcake/) Horribly researched and absolutely made up. Not true. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This [Pin Up](http://www.jahsonic.com/PinUp.html) page gives the same anecdote as bob++'s site, but attributes it to a different photographer in 1915. > > Some poking around shows that the story seems to have been taken from Barry Popik, perhaps the dean of all modern etymologists. > > The James Kane version, however, is not some recent variation but probably the older story, having been known for decades. > > Famous quotes are frequently attributed to multiple people, but this is odd since neither person is now remembered. Barry Popik’s great site [The Big Apple](http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/cheesecake_and_beefcake_photography/) belies the early attribution. The term, American in origin, to mean photos(usually leg photos) of sexy women, is first attested to in print in 1934, _Time_ Magazine. No one has ever found an earlier example. Time magazine writers quite often originated slang words, especially in the 1920-1950 period. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheesecake-origins-nudity/720479/9 "2015-05-22T02:10:20Z")
I was using [this footnote](https://books.google.com/books?id=xcjq7_dG1RYC&pg=PA99&dq=cheesecake+popik&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0YxeVYaBBZOlyAThlYDoBg&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=cheesecake%20popik&f=false) about Popik. Apparently the writer misunderstood the column. To be honest, it’s not absolutely clear to me either. That column can be read as him saying that somebody used the term cheesecake earlier, but it’s coincidental, or that it never really happened. And to nitpick Popik’s column, the word used by Time in 1934 is “cheese-cake.” You won’t find it in Time’s archives by searching for “cheesecake.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheesecake-origins-nudity/720479/10 "2015-05-23T08:15:22Z")
Well, that article answers my questions, including the one about whether beefcake came later. (It did.) So thanks. The context in which I’d always seen it, I’d associated it with at least some level of nudity. But it doesn’t surprise me that such is not a requirement. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheesecake-origins-nudity/720479/11 "2015-05-23T08:22:04Z")
Before reading this thread, I had always associated the description “cheesecake” with the display of teeth that usually accompanied these pictures. Photographers say “Say Cheese” to get their subjects to smile. There seems to be no connection to “cheesy” as in shoddy or inferior, as that came from the British in India. ---
**Author:** ![j\_sum1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8baadc/32.png) [@j\_sum1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_sum1)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheesecake-origins-nudity/720479/12 "2015-05-23T11:35:36Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Time magazine writers quite often originated slang words, especially in the 1920-1950 period. So Time was the Seinfeld of the day?