# Chem trail question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 11, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832 "2009-12-11T06:03:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FredGarven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@FredGarven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FredGarven)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/21 "2009-12-11T16:32:09Z")
I know nothing of the chemtrail conspiracy mentioned above. But I do know that on many otherwise clear days, the sky is cloudy and ugly because of the lingering jet exhaust. It really pisses me off that the airlines or military or whoever thinks they have the right to do that. I remember several years ago as a child, the contrails behind jets would make small short-lived lines in the sky. They would disappear in a very small amount of time. Now, the trails coming out of jets seem to not only linger, but grow larger and larger as time goes on. On some days there will be enough of them to cover the entire sky. Something has changed in them since the '70s. Maybe the fuel they are using now is causing the exhaust to give off some particle that attracts more condensation than it used to. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/22 "2009-12-11T16:49:18Z")
> [@Oregon\_sunshine](#): > > Why, on some days, does it look like a cross-hatch pattern in the sky with milky - almost iridescent - colors, and on others the sky is a blank where you can see jets with nothing coming out of them? Whether a contrail forms and then lingers is dependent on the temperature of the air and the humidity. In dry air, the contrail either won’t form or will evaporate relatively quickly. In humid air, the contrail will not evaporate, but will slowly spread out and even seed more cloud formation. > [@FredGarven](#): > > I remember several years ago as a child, the contrails behind jets would make small short-lived lines in the sky… > > Something has changed in them since the '70s. Maybe the fuel they are using now is causing the exhaust to give off some particle that attracts more condensation than it used to. There are more flights now than in the '70s, but even then they would evaporate when the air is dry and linger when it’s humid. I suspect your memory is selective and you’re suffering from confirmation bias. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/23 "2009-12-11T16:51:57Z")
CurtC like whatever you say will change what I’ve actually seen. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/24 "2009-12-11T16:52:35Z")
Maybe the confirmation bias particle? I still see plenty of jets with short contrails. It depends on atmospheric conditions. But since they don’t stick around, they’re harder to notice unless you’re actually looking at them. Which you likely had much more time to do when you were a kid than you do now. Oh, and it could also be related to any change in location since you were young. . . proximity to airports, flight paths, etc. will define the altitudes of the planes you see at any particular location, and altitude makes a LOT of difference in what a contrail looks or behaves like. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/25 "2009-12-11T16:54:10Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > There are more flights now than in the '70s, but even then they would evaporate when the air is dry and linger when it’s humid. I suspect your memory is selective and you’re suffering from confirmation bias. ..or perhaps moved to a location with a different climate? ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/26 "2009-12-11T17:20:38Z")
[quote=“Oregon\_sunshine, post:18, topic:520832”] Why, on some days, does it look like a cross-hatch pattern in the sky with milky - almost iridescent - colors, and on others the sky is a blank where you can see jets with nothing coming out of them? [QUOTE] It all depends upon the amount of humidity in the air, the temperature, wind speed, and the types of chemicals they’re spraying on the public. Whoops… Let the cat out of the bag! Contrails are formed by the same processes that form clouds: The condensation of water vapor into tiny droplets. You might as well blame clouds on a government conspiracy too. > [@](#): > > Why sometimes, are there some jets with no contrails whatsoever, some with a slight contrail that disappears as it goes along (that’s what I remember jet contrails looking like when I was a child) and others that seem to spew grayish colored “stuff” across the whole sky - coexisting in the same weather conditions? What is happening when the “stuff” lingers for hours and appears to spread into a filmy haze over the sky? Remember I said contrails are formed by the same process that forms regular clouds? That’s why contrails appear in the air and will, like clouds, linger there. Why do different planes create different types of contrails? It all depends on the amount of exhaust, the temperature, and the water content of the exhaust gasses. > [@](#): > > Maybe if the phenomenon could be adequately explained in terms of meteorology, maybe those “nutters” you might feel like making fun of, would understand!! Then maybe they wouldn’t be crazy anymore?? What can’t be adequately explained? Maybe you can adequately explain these questions: [ul] [li] Where is the chemical stored in commercial airplanes? There would have to be a secret compartment to store a few tons of chemicals and a way to put these chemicals into the exhaust of airplanes. That would mean that the companies who build commercial airlines (Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier, and a few others) have to make special allowances in the design of their aircraft. The tens of thousands of people who design, build, and test the airplanes would have to be involved.[/li] [li]Who controls the spraying of this chemical? Commercial airline pilots? There’s over 100,000 of them in the U.S. alone, and each one would have to be in on this conspiracy.[/li] [li]How is this chemical delivered to the airplanes? There must be thousands of trucks out there delivering this chemical, and it has to be stored at commercial airports. It has to be stored at airports, and delivered to the airplanes. How is this done?[/li] [li]Why would private airlines agree to make space on their planes to be involved in this government plot? Who at the airlines would have to know about it? Certainly all of the executive officers. And, much of the accounting staff. You need to track deliveries, payments, etc.[/li][/ul] By the time you’re finished, you have tens of millions people who must keep absolutely quite. And, you still cannot explain what chemical would be sprayed at 20,000 feet or why. > [@](#): > > Someone just give it a shot!! I’m sure the “fanatics” would listen to true scientific knowledge, if it could explain the weird visual stuff that happens with “contrails”! The amazing this is that _fanatics_ don’t listen. Anyone who disagrees must be in on the plot. Anyone who questions the data is an insider. To fanatics, this simply makes the conspiracy even bigger and more important. They have to work twice as hard to spread the word. Take a few meteorology courses and you’ll get your scientific explanation of contrails. Become the _expert_ you always says needs to be questioned. Or, you can simply say its all part of a big government coverup and feel important because _you_ are smarter than those sheeple who refuse to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/27 "2009-12-11T17:39:00Z")
> [@qazwart](#): > > The amazing thi(ng) is that _fanatics_ don’t listen. Anyone who disagrees must be in on the plot. Anyone who questions the data is an insider. To fanatics, this simply makes the conspiracy even bigger and more important. They have to work twice as hard to spread the word. And as soon as one (or multiple) theories are shot down, others get dragged in. For a really good time, the chemtrail enthusiast will perform a “Gish gallop”, dumping in a barrel of guesses, personal observations, miscellaneous out-of-context quotes and mysterious photos, in the expectation that no one will have the time or patience to debunk all of them at one sitting. [Here’s a link](http://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/) to a site which painstakingly goes over aircraft photos that have been used in support of the chemtrail conspiracy. Note how in the following comments the chemtrailers ignore the evidence, try to change the subject, and use the typical ploy “the government has lied to us before so nothing you say can change my mind”. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/28 "2009-12-11T17:51:16Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > CurtC like whatever you say will change what I’ve actually seen. I don’t doubt what you’ve seen, but I strongly doubt your interpretation of it. You saw planes flying overhead in various directions, leaving persistent trails. You’re assuming that the trails were being intentionally turned on and off because you saw them occurring in one area of the sky, starting and stopping at the edges. That’s what I disagree with, because that’s entirely consistent with the way normal contrails form. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/29 "2009-12-11T19:00:34Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > Speaking of wacky beliefs. No belief is wackier than the belief a message board discussion will change some ones mind. I interpretted it to mean that **H.D.** would back off of his claim and say “I never said that”, not that he’d change his mind. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/30 "2009-12-11T20:05:24Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I interpretted it to mean that **H.D.** would back off of his claim and say “I never said that”, not that he’d change his mind. Sorry if I wasn’t clear - I looked and saw that H.D. is a long-timer here, and figured he must be open to evidence and reason, but just must have not investigated this “chemtrail” thing too much. I was thinking he’d be open to change his mind once he sees the arguments, which I think is a complimentary thing to say. At least that’s how I meant it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/31 "2009-12-11T22:32:07Z")
> [@](#): > > There is a distinction. The term chem trail distinguishes that they are not talking about a regular jet exhaust which would be a contrail. The conspiracy nutters don’t usually seem to get this distinction, though. It seems to go like this: A person who has never in their life paid attention to anything at all one day looks up at the sky and, for the first time in their life, notices that there’s a cloud-like line behind an airplane. The person then misinterprets their lack of paying attention for the first few decades of their life as meaning that the cloud-like lines were never there before, and that they must be something new. But they can’t find anyone explaining why these things are new, so they must be a secret, and therefore a conspiracy. For an example of similar thinking, see [the water sprinkler rainbow conspiracy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c6HsiixFS8). ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/32 "2009-12-11T23:41:57Z")
I think they’re spraying for [Rods](http://www.opendb.com/sol/seq.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2009, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/33 "2009-12-12T05:01:35Z")
[QUOTE=qazwart] Or, you can simply say its all part of a big government coverup and feel important because you are smarter than those sheeple who refuse to believe. [/QUOTE] **qazwart** thanks for the information but there is no reason to be rude! Besides, I never said in my post I thought it was a government conspiracy! (You can look again, if you want). I have no idea how the _government_ would pull off something like that!! 🙂 Anyway, I actually feel as if the phenomenon is more adequately explained to me now in terms of actual science, which was what I was asking for. 🙂 Thanks also to **FredGarven** , **CurtC** , **troub** and **Chronos**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2009, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/34 "2009-12-12T05:40:51Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > [Here’s a link](http://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/) to a site which painstakingly goes over aircraft photos that have been used in support of the chemtrail conspiracy. Note how in the following comments the chemtrailers ignore the evidence, try to change the subject, and use the typical ploy “the government has lied to us before so nothing you say can change my mind”. Their [del]stupidity[/del] lack of understanding is mind-boggling. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2009, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/35 "2009-12-12T09:53:13Z")
I worked with a fairly whacked out woman who looked outside one day and said, “They’re spraying again.” I asked, “Who is spraying what?” “The government.” she replied “they spray chemicals to control us”. “Right, that would be pretty much impossible to do and keep secret, wouldn’t it?” “That’s what _they_ want you to believe.” Of course, people like her are the rational ones who the poison hasn’t gotten to yet. It’s a sort of self-reinforcing feedback loop. FWIW, she was also a virulently racist Christian who followed the teachings of the old testament. Everybody was out to get her. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Elk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Anne\_Elk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Elk)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2009, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/36 "2009-12-12T10:39:29Z")
Whenever I feel threatened by these government sponsored aerial operations I don my protective tin-foil cap!😉 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/37 "2009-12-12T16:12:57Z")
I’m gonna dip my toe in here … As a former airline guy I’ve got a few fact tidbits to consider … The US airlines collectively have ~20x the number of airplanes the US military does. Most of the US airlines’ flying is over the US. Most military flying, especially these days, is over other countries. The airlines fly the same routes & schedule every day, with minor variations on weekends. On days when the conditions are favorable, lots of jets leave lots of persistent contrails. They are virtually all from civilian airplanes; the military simply doesn’t have enough to be more than a tiny fraction of the total. On days when the conditions are not favorable, the same number of jets fly the same paths through the sky at the same times, leaving few short-lived trails or no trails at all. All the jets are still all up there, you just can’t see but a tiny fraction of them. And that’s when they do the spraying. If you could see it, it wouldn’t be a secret, now would it? The best part about the chemtrail CT, and why the Gov’t is so pleased, is that the CT popularizers have it exactly backwards.\* \*Just kidding, but I like to see CTer’s heads asplode. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/38 "2009-12-12T21:52:19Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > In WW2 high altitude bombers often had their marginal stealthiness ruined by contrails. If there was any way for them to NOT produce them, they would have. It is a combination of warm exhaust and cold air. Nothing more, nothing less. A tactic fighter pilots used to use (maybe still do) is to find the altitude at which contrails start forming, and fly right below that. Then, not only do they not leave any trails, but it makes it much harder for an enemy to sneak up on them from above, since they would be leaving contrails and be much easier to spot. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832/39 "2009-12-12T22:29:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > For an example of similar thinking, see [the water sprinkler rainbow conspiracy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c6HsiixFS8). I think I just lost 10 IQ points watching that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chem-trail-question/520832.md?page=1)