# Chemistry help: sodium percarbonate and sodium carbonate
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chemistry-help-sodium-percarbonate-and-sodium-carbonate/749558
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [March 19, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chemistry-help-sodium-percarbonate-and-sodium-carbonate/749558 "2016-03-19T18:50:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 11
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chemistry-help-sodium-percarbonate-and-sodium-carbonate/749558/1 "2016-03-19T18:50:21Z")
I have a [Breville automatic tea maker](http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-tea-maker-onetouch.html). The inside is glass, stainless steel, some other metal (aluminum possibly, it’s the tea basket) and a little plastic. I love it. But after a while even the stainless steel gets discolored from exposure to the tea.
With it came one packet of cleaner. One must heat a full pot of water to boiling, put in the contents of the packet, which foams up, leave it for 5 minutes, then rinse thoroughly. This works really well. However, it is an expensive cleaner, with shipping it costs around $3.50 per packet when ordered online. The packet says the contents are sodium percarbonate and sodium carbonate.
So, I’m wondering why this is so expensive, and if there is a good substitute that is both safe and effective.
Or could I buy these ingredients in bulk and make my own? 10 pounds of sodium percarbonate costs $21.50 plus shipping, and the same amount of sodium carbonate costs $19.50 plus shipping. This would be a several lifetime supply, for the cost of maybe 10 packets of the finished product.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chemistry-help-sodium-percarbonate-and-sodium-carbonate/749558/2 "2016-03-19T19:31:32Z")
That sounds identical to OxiClean which, while not as cheap as the bulk ingredients, is certainly much cheaper than $3.50 a packet. The actual active ingredient is hydrogen peroxide, which is bound up in the sodium percarbonate and released on exposure to water. I’d say just grab a container of unscented, powdered OxiClean.
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### Author:  [@Solved](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Solved)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2016, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chemistry-help-sodium-percarbonate-and-sodium-carbonate/749558/3 "2016-03-20T04:17:55Z")
Perhaps this is a good alternative? Much cheaper and still meant specifically for tea stains.
[http://shopmandalatea.com/smart-soak-tea-stain-dissolver.html](http://shopmandalatea.com/smart-soak-tea-stain-dissolver.html)
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### Author:  [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2016, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chemistry-help-sodium-percarbonate-and-sodium-carbonate/749558/4 "2016-03-20T04:26:04Z")
Both excellent seeming suggestions. I’ll try the OxiClean first, since I can pick it up locally. Thanks.
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### Author:  [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chemistry-help-sodium-percarbonate-and-sodium-carbonate/749558/5 "2016-03-20T04:32:24Z")
You can make sodium carbonate from sodium hydrogen carbonate (baking soda). Just spread it on a baking sheet and bake it for about an hour at 450 F. If you want a solution of sodium carbonate, just add baking soda to boiling water and stir until it quits fizzing.
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2016, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chemistry-help-sodium-percarbonate-and-sodium-carbonate/749558/6 "2016-03-20T08:57:20Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#):
>
> You can make sodium carbonate from sodium hydrogen carbonate (baking soda). Just spread it on a baking sheet and bake it for about an hour at 450 F. If you want a solution of sodium carbonate, just add baking soda to boiling water and stir until it quits fizzing.
You can also get a solution of sodium carbonate by dissolving bicarbonate. The solutions you get by dissolving m moles of carbonate and by dissolving the same amount in moles of bicarbonate are actually the same, a buffered solution including both. It’s not possible to have a solution which will have only one of the two anions.
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### Author:  [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2016, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chemistry-help-sodium-percarbonate-and-sodium-carbonate/749558/7 "2016-03-20T09:26:24Z")
I have used sodium percarbonate for all sorts of cleaning for decades. I started when I had kids and discovered that the sterilizing stuff for their bottles got stains off cookware and food containers. A little study showed that percarbonate breaks down into harmless things. A little comparison shopping showed that really cheap brands of laundry powders are available that contain n other active ingredient and I was away.
At work at the end of the week we chuck all the cups and coffee making gear in the sink with a spoonful or two of Aldi Di San pre treatment soaker (same stuff I use in my washing machine). On Monday we rinse them all. They are cleaner than if they had been through a dishwasher.
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### Author:  [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2016, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chemistry-help-sodium-percarbonate-and-sodium-carbonate/749558/8 "2016-03-20T10:04:29Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#):
>
> At work at the end of the week we chuck all the cups and coffee making gear in the sink with a spoonful or two of Aldi Di San pre treatment soaker
The Australian soapy water industry has just applied to have you declared an enemy of the state.
Well played Sir!
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### Author:  [@DrForrester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrForrester)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chemistry-help-sodium-percarbonate-and-sodium-carbonate/749558/9 "2016-03-20T15:40:33Z")
Denture cleaner tablets also work well.
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### Author:  [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chemistry-help-sodium-percarbonate-and-sodium-carbonate/749558/10 "2016-03-20T15:54:54Z")
> [@Nava](#):
>
> You can also get a solution of sodium carbonate by dissolving bicarbonate. The solutions you get by dissolving m moles of carbonate and by dissolving the same amount in moles of bicarbonate are actually the same, a buffered solution including both. It’s not possible to have a solution which will have only one of the two anions.
Sodium bicarbonate and sodium hydrogen carbonate are synonyms.
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### Author:  [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chemistry-help-sodium-percarbonate-and-sodium-carbonate/749558/11 "2016-03-20T16:05:30Z")
Here is the balanced equation for the reaction. The CO[sub]2[/sub] given off is what makes baked goods rise when NaHCO[sub]3[/sub] is used as baking powder.
2 NaHCO[sub]3/sub + heat —\> CO[sub]2/sub + H[sub]2[/sub]O(g) + Na[sub]2[/sub]CO[sub]3/sub