# Chen019: A bigger fool that follows other fools **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 18, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909 "2011-06-18T04:40:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/61 "2011-06-20T01:57:20Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > As I’ve said, you don’t expect capitalism to be praised under Stalin. Stalin praised Lysenkoism, that was an attempt to fit ideology to science. For the scientists in the field immigration is small compared to the whole population and out of scope of the big problems. Dealing with immigration would not make a dent. Your attempts at making your ideology change the science are indeed foolish. It is slightly less foolish at the environmentalists level but unfortunately many of the serious ones that are experts on the issue are also scientists. Any cite from them agreeing with your position? > [@Chen019](#): > > There are strong political reasons for tiptoeing around immigration. I’m focussing on the environmental perspective. I was the one who brought perspective into your roast, so let’s not try to be disingenuous too. > [@Chen019](#): > > I appreciate that you have non-environmental reasons for never revising immigration levels. That is fine. Said the pot to the kette, if I was doing that only, as mentioned before you just chickened out in dealing with the articles from the environmentalists explaining why immigration is not in their scope. So you are the only one that remains the black one. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/62 "2011-06-20T02:03:56Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Your argument amounts to; ‘I know it’s not the real issue, but if we keep out more immigrants, I can keep driving my Hummer.’ > > You’re a dumbass. No wait, you may be the dumbass all other dumbasses bow down before. I disagree with the “may”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/63 "2011-06-20T02:11:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Stalin praised Lysenkoism, that was an attempt to fit ideology to science. For the scientists in the field immigration is small compared to the whole population and out of scope of the big problems. > > Dealing with immigration **would not make a dent.** Your attempts at making your ideology change the science are indeed foolish. It is slightly less foolish at the environmentalists level but unfortunately many of the serious ones that are experts on the issue are also scientists. > > Any cite from them agreeing with your position? That is manifestly false. If you look at any projections, it is unescapable that a significant driver of population growth comes from immigration. This is far easier to control than trying to stop people having children (unless you want to follow China down that path). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/64 "2011-06-20T02:16:34Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > That is manifestly false. If you look at any projections, it is unescapable that a significant driver of population growth comes from immigration. This is far easier to control than trying to stop people having children (unless you want to follow China down that path). So the answer is no. Thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/65 "2011-06-20T02:33:04Z")
Dude, let it go already. It has less to do with the numbers of people than how the people live. So long as American’s continue to consume at a rate that exceeds the rest of the world, whatever the resource, addressing the numbers of people isn’t going to matter. You are truly dense beyond all measure. You want to preserve water? Stop building cities in the desert, with thousands of lovely green lawns. Stop using treated water to wash your damn cars, turn off all the fountains in Vegas. Stop emptying reservoirs because someone pissed in it. Any one of these things would have greater impact than cutting immigration. Of course they won’t actually help with your racist agenda, but you’re all about the water, right? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/66 "2011-06-20T03:14:46Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Dude, let it go already. > > It has less to do with the numbers of people than how the people live. So long as American’s continue to consume at a rate that exceeds the rest of the world, whatever the resource, addressing the numbers of people isn’t going to matter. > > You are truly dense beyond all measure. > > You want to preserve water? Stop building cities in the desert, with thousands of lovely green lawns. Stop using treated water to wash your damn cars, turn off all the fountains in Vegas. Stop emptying reservoirs because someone pissed in it. Any one of these things would have greater impact than cutting immigration. > > Of course they won’t actually help with your racist agenda, but you’re all about the water, right? Those are all good suggestions, but as noted in the cite about the Colorado Basin and in the Clinton report, population growth also has to be considered. > [@](#): > > The combination of limited Colorado River water supplies, rapidly increasing populations and water demands, warmer regional temperatures, and the specter of recurrent drought point to a future in which the potential for conflict among existing and prospective new users will prove endemic. > > Steadily rising population and urban water demands in the Colorado River region will inevitably result in increasingly costly, controversial, and unavoidable trade-off choices to be made by water managers, politicians, and their constituents. These increasing demands are also impeding the region’s ability to cope with droughts and water shortages. > **[Read "Colorado River Basin Water Management: Evaluating and Adjusting to...](https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/11857/chapter/2#8)** > > Read chapter Summary: Recent studies of past climate and streamflow conditions have broadened understanding of long-term water availability in the Colorad... And, unless you want to pursue a 1 child policy like China it might be easier to achieve reduced population growth via reduced immigration levels. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/67 "2011-06-20T03:23:12Z")
It would be a good system to just automatically post Duh’s for the Colorado cite that focuses on global warming, and a 😛 for the immigration item. **elbows** , it looks like he is also proud of just being a chicken and never bother to even check if any scientist outside the incestuous nativist groups is supporting his scheme. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/68 "2011-06-20T03:26:02Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > It would be a good system to just automatically post Duh’s for the Colorado cite that focuses on global warming, and a 😛 for the immigration item. > > **elbows** , it looks like he is also proud of just being a chicken and never bother to even check if any scientist outside the incestuous nativist groups is supporting his scheme. What scheme? The point about population growth is so obvious even you appear to have conceded it. Your main opposition seems to be to suggest that the focus should be globally, which is fine. It doesn’t mean you can’t also address population growth in the US via reduced immigration levels. That follows quite logically from the population growth issue. Again, unless you believe it would be better to have a China style 1 child policy to deal with population issues in the future? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/69 "2011-06-20T03:38:19Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > What scheme? The point about population growth is so obvious even you appear to have conceded it. No what you have conceded is that you are a certifiable disingenuous poster. If you really believed I conceded that immigration can be on the scope for climate science and environmentalists when population already includes it you are really hopeless deluded twit. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/70 "2011-06-20T03:54:27Z")
Of course everyone can notice that in reality he \*\*did \*\*chicken out, he never did bother to even check if any scientist outside the incestuous nativist groups is supporting him. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/71 "2011-06-20T03:54:49Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > No what you have conceded is that you are a certifiable disingenuous poster. > > If you really believed I conceded that immigration can be on the scope for climate science and environmentalists when population already includes it you are really hopeless deluded twit. US population relates to just that - the US population. The demand on water supplies in the Southwest relates to the population in those areas. Some other US population issues that you would prefer to ignore for ideological reasons, are outlined here by Lester R Brown\* \ Does Brown count as an [environmentalist](http://www.earth-policy.org/about_epi/C32)? 😛 > [@](#): > > He is the recipient of many prizes and awards, including 25 honorary degrees, a MacArthur Fellowship, the 1987 United Nations’ Environment Prize, the 1989 World Wide Fund for Nature Gold Medal, and the 1994 Blue Planet Prize for his “exceptional contributions to solving global environmental problems.” More recently, he was awarded the the Borgström Prize by the Royal Swedish Academy of Agriculture and Forestry, and was selected one of Foreign Policy’s Top Global Thinkers of 2010. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/72 "2011-06-20T03:59:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Again, unless you believe it would be better to have a China style 1 child policy to deal with population issues in the future? Because these are the only two issues to address environmental damage? Reduce immigration or Chinese 1 child policy? We should choose either of these idiotic suggestions over actually changing our lifestyles a tad? What are you smoking? Immigration isn’t about providing homes and futures for deserving foreigners. It’s about entry level newcomers who will thrive in an environment with opportunity, driving the economy in the process. America and Canada were both built into thriving huge economies this very way. That’s what makes it so easy to identify boneheaded racists who want to cut immigration during economic stagnation. Seriously dude, that’s the reason you’re the only one who thinks this is a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/73 "2011-06-20T04:17:56Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > US population relates to just that - the US population. The demand on water supplies in the Southwest relates to the population in those areas. > > Some other US population issues that you would prefer to ignore for ideological reasons, are outlined here by Lester R Brown\* > > Does Brown count as an [environmentalist](http://www.earth-policy.org/about_epi/C32)? 😛 You really can not read carefully huh? While he does refer to immigration there is nothing there to suggest dealing with the immigrant population separately, he is referring to all. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/74 "2011-06-20T04:20:19Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You really can not read carefully huh? While he does refer to immigration there is nothing there to suggest dealing with the immigrant population separately, he is referring to all. He thinks the US population should be stabilized - not go up to 400 million. Well, you can either follow the China approach of 1 child limits. Or maybe you could simply revise immigration levels. That is far more sensible. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/75 "2011-06-20T04:35:05Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > He thinks the US population should be stabilized - not go up to 400 million. And I would go for it as he is not insisting on dealing with the immigrants separately. > [@Chen019](#): > > Well, you can either follow the China approach of 1 child limits. Or maybe you could simply revise immigration levels. That is far more sensible. No that is just you showing the indefatigable spirit and dedication to demonstrate all the disingenuous levels you are willing to go for. Good show! 😃 We are still looking though for a non nativist scientist and expert that supports the idea that we should address the population growth in the US via reduced immigration ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/76 "2011-06-20T04:36:52Z")
[quote=“GIGObuster, post:75, topic:585909”] > [@Chen019](#): > > He thinks the US population should be stabilized - not go up to 400 million. > > And I would go for it as he is not insisting on dealing with the immigrants separately. So you think a one child policy would be more effective or preferable to reducing immigration? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/77 "2011-06-20T04:59:35Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > So you think a one child policy would be more effective or preferable to reducing immigration? Hey, you ask him that, I agreed with him as he is not concentrating on immigrants to do so, all of America is included by him. So, any science expert that is not from SUSPS or related organization that that supports your idea that we should address the population growth in the US via reduced immigration? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/78 "2011-06-20T05:05:37Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > He thinks the US population should be stabilized - not go up to 400 million. > > Well, you can either follow the China approach of 1 child limits. Or maybe you could simply revise immigration levels. That is far more sensible. You’re the one who keeps cherry-picking data from that sustainability report that happens to mention immigration. Why don’t you tell us about the other options that they recommend for reducing growth? Are greenwashers not interested in family planning education? Hey **GIGOBuster** (and anyone else who’s curious where chenboy gets these insane ideas from), while it’s possible I’ve missed the link in the various threads where you’ve been battling this particular racist, if you haven’t seen [this](http://www.splcenter.org/greenwash-nativists-environmentalism-and-the-hypocrisy-of-hate/what-is-greenwashing) yet, you’ll probably enjoy it far more than listening to a racist keep trying to justify his racism through various means. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/79 "2011-06-20T05:09:55Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > You’re the one who keeps cherry-picking data from that sustainability report that happens to mention immigration. Why don’t you tell us about the other options that they recommend for reducing growth? Are greenwashers not interested in family planning education? > > Hey **GIGOBuster** (and anyone else who’s curious where chenboy gets these insane ideas from), while it’s possible I’ve missed the link in the various threads where you’ve been battling this particular racist, if you haven’t seen [this](http://www.splcenter.org/greenwash-nativists-environmentalism-and-the-hypocrisy-of-hate/what-is-greenwashing) yet, you’ll probably enjoy it far more than listening to a racist keep trying to justify his racism through various means. Please read my comments above at # 9. I have said from the outset on this thread that I agree with the other measures suggested by **GIGO Buster**. What is harder to explain is the reluctance to address US population growth when it is clearly a major issue. The reasons for this appear to be due to political expediency. > **[Plan B Updates - 59: U.S. Population Reaches 300 Million, Heading for 400...](https://wayback.archive-it.org/22906/20240418014450/https://www.earth-policy.org/plan_b_updates/2006/update59)** ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909/80 "2011-06-20T05:24:32Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Hey **GIGOBuster** (and anyone else who’s curious where chenboy gets these insane ideas from), while it’s possible I’ve missed the link in the various threads where you’ve been battling this particular racist, if you haven’t seen [this](http://www.splcenter.org/greenwash-nativists-environmentalism-and-the-hypocrisy-of-hate/what-is-greenwashing) yet, you’ll probably enjoy it far more than listening to a racist keep trying to justify his racism through various means. I have that link ready already in my resources, I already know where he is coming from, I’m just humoring him, he is so funny by acting like if he is making any headway. To me it was more important to know in this roast what kind of support he actually does have. Not very impressive, but then again I was almost 90% certain of that. What it is clear now is that he is also a chicken, and disingenuous to boot, a roast could not be a roast if we could not get direct evidence of other follies that he has, so I do know that he will not disappoint us! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chen019-a-bigger-fool-that-follows-other-fools/585909.md?page=5)