# Cheney, Dick **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214 "2009-05-21T18:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/41 "2009-05-21T23:04:40Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I thought his speech had a lot of valid points actually. I disagree with his overall philosophy but the groupthink exemplified by using his name as an epithet is rather corny. Cite (as to valid points)? I heard stuff like “to call this a program of torture is to libel the dedicated professionals who have saved American lives, and to cast terrorists and murderers as innocent victims” and chalked it up as more Cheney, distractionist blather. Who’s calling terrorists innocent victims here? Nobody, Cheney. Nice strawman though. To be 100% honest though, I simply can’t listen to Cheney anymore. He makes my skin crawl. I have a physical, visceral reaction to the man that is unlike anyone else on the planet. I’d much, much rather listen to Bush than this fucking goblin. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/42 "2009-05-21T23:09:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Giving a speech is forming a shadow government? Or is it disagreeing with The Blessed One? Certainly that is less worrisome that declaring it treason to disagree with an elected official? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/43 "2009-05-21T23:20:33Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Certainly that is less worrisome that declaring it treason to disagree with an elected official? LouisB opined that Cheney’s strenuous opposition to Obama’s policies and repeated assertions that he knows better than Obama how to keep America safe gives succor to native right-wing crazies who think, for example, that Obama was born in Kenya and is a Muslim Marxist. That’s not exactly just disagreeing with an elected official. Plus, he said that after Shodan posted. Oh, and do recall the constant chorus that dissent is treason from virtually the entire previous administration. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/44 "2009-05-21T23:26:18Z")
I thought this was rich: > [@](#): > > “You can sense the problem in the emergence of euphemisms that strive to put an imaginary distance between the American people and the terrorist enemy. Apparently using the term “war” where terrorists are concerned is starting to feel a bit dated. So henceforth we’re advised by the administration to think of the fight against terrorists as, quote, “Overseas contingency operations.” This from the guy who uses “enhanced interrogations” throughout the speech, including _ **the sentence exactly prior to the above quote!** _ :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/45 "2009-05-21T23:32:19Z")
Worse than that, both the terms “war” and “torture” are not just rhetoric. They are categories with legal implications. So it is important to get it right. While our anti-terrorism military operations abroad are not properly a “war” in many of the legal senses of war (a point Cheney himself has made on multiple occasions), our interrogation conduct was “torture”. Both “War on Terror” and “Enhanced Interrogation” are manipulative euphemisms used by the Bush Administration for political and legal ends when it suited them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/46 "2009-05-21T23:50:40Z")
“Requesting a change in interrogative protocol” = Begging for mercy “Stress-based vocalizations” = Screaming in agony “Religious utterances” = “Oh, dear God, make it stop!” “Non-positive reaction formation” = the world, recoiling in horror ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/47 "2009-05-21T23:52:40Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Certainly that is less worrisome that declaring it treason to disagree with an elected official? [Cites that Right Wingers (pols or pundits) claimed dissent was unAmerican/traitorous](http://boardstest.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=518448) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/48 "2009-05-21T23:57:52Z")
“Treasonous, cowardly, UnAmerican” = Me, him, her and probably you ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/49 "2009-05-22T00:03:41Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > You know, I could swear that it wasn’t that long ago that the Bush administration said it was completely inappropriate for a former admin to disparage a sitting President’s policy. Sure, but it was ESPECIALLY wrong if they did it from outside the borders of the USofA. Naturally, Cheney doesn’t need to worry that he’ll make that mistake - I imagine he’s afraid to leave the borders of the country. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/50 "2009-05-22T00:11:28Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > You know, I could swear that it wasn’t that long ago that the Bush administration said it was completely inappropriate for a former admin to disparage a sitting President’s policy. You could swear it all you want, but it still wouldn’t be true. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/51 "2009-05-22T00:25:00Z")
Yes, but claiming that the terrorists will see us as weak and divided if we argue over torture, and then criticizing the President’s stance on torture is pretty funny. It would be easy for him to stop the argument over torture, and then the terrorists would be scared. So which is more important: that we have the right policy on torture, or that whatever policy we have on torture we shouldn’t argue about it. If we shouldn’t argue about it, then he should shut up. If it’s more important to have the right policy on torture, then he should stop complaining that everyone who disagrees with him is emboldening the terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/52 "2009-05-22T00:42:57Z")
> [@furt](#): > > You could swear it all you want, but it still wouldn’t be true. I remember the media taking Gore to task, not Bush or Cheney. Could be way off though. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/53 "2009-05-22T00:49:28Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > I remember the media taking Gore to task, not Bush or Cheney. Could be way off though. I remember \*some \*in the media taking Gore to task, and some defending him. I’ve heard _some_ in the media taking Cheney to task, and some defending him. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/54 "2009-05-22T00:52:03Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I remember \*some \*in the media taking Gore to task, and some defending him. I never heard of anyone in the media defending Gore. Cite? > [@furt](#): > > I’ve heard _some_ in the media taking Cheney to task, and some defending him. I’ve mostly just heard lots of people giving him hours and hours of airtime to spout his bullshit with no real arguments, ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/55 "2009-05-22T00:55:10Z")
What is the saddest thing about Cheney is that, I think, he is so paranoid about the rest of the world and so afraid of change that he really believes the bullshit he spouts is the best thing for America (and to him that’s all that matters) even when he knows it is false. He really does love America; but that loyalty would be to wherever he was born and whatever political system he was born into. Freedom is not important to him. Keeping things exactly the same as it was when he was a kid, or the romantic notion of how it was in the generation before is the most important. It has to be preserved at home NO MATTER WHAT. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/56 "2009-05-22T00:59:02Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > I never heard of anyone in the media defending Gore. Cite? You’re seriously going to pretend that you think NOBODY in the media said it was OK for Gore to criticize Bush? Or are you just going to play the “ha-ha, made you waste 15 minutes googling before telling you that cites won’t change my mind anyway” game? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/57 "2009-05-22T01:09:17Z")
> [@furt](#): > > You’re seriously going to pretend that you think NOBODY in the media said it was OK for Gore to criticize Bush? I’m saying I don’t remember anybody doing it, and I’m not going to take it on faith. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/58 "2009-05-22T01:10:20Z")
I merely wonder if former Vice-President Cheney has been called a traitor for the mere act of not agreeing with the actions of the current President. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/59 "2009-05-22T01:13:13Z")
Well, no prominent members of Congress or this administration have done so, which means Cheney’s ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214/60 "2009-05-22T01:13:34Z")
> [@furt](#): > > You could swear it all you want, but it still wouldn’t be true. Only in the sense that the Bush administration didn’t say it. Bush might have, Cheney might have, another member of their administration may have, but the administration as a whole never said AFAIK. [Brit Hume implied it was improper and scandalous, bad form and all that rot](http://mediamatters.org/research/200509200002). I’m still looking at other stuff to see who may have said what. > [@Brit Hume](#): > > Former President Bill Clinton has now done something his predecessor, the first President George Bush, did not do, and that is criticize the sitting president and his administration. He was wrong, tho, as the Media Matters page makes clear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-dick/497214.md?page=4)