# Cheney: Iran's Government is an Outlaw Regime **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2004, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148 "2004-03-19T04:08:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/41 "2004-03-19T17:15:23Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > Now, as far as this Nazism thing is concerned. Before you type one keystroke, I want you to explain to me why just about every conflict we’ve been involved in since the end of WWII were all against non-white nations, especially during the Reagan Administration. You’ve already had it pointed out to you that there was a minor conflict between the United States and the Soviet Union during this time-period; why do you consider this to be insignificant? I’ll also remind you about a certain country that was instrumental in turning Germany into a divided battlefield. I’ll also point out that many current enemies are Aryans, and many Latinos consider themselves white (based on their European heritage). I’ll also point out that the United States has propped up many dictatorships in non-white countries. Your theory about non-white nations simply doesn’t hold any water. > [@](#): > > The Army at the same time will actually **teach** new caucasion recruits to hate other races. Just ask anyone who’ve served…Now tell me,why is this? (Explain) Given your reliability so far in this thread, I think I’ll take you up on this offer. Anyone here who’s white and has served in the Army, wanna verify what **starguard** has said? You’re making us progressives look real bad with these cockamamie theories. > [@](#): > > I just want to know that if our Govt is not on a crusade to create some NEW WORLD ORDER based on white supremacy or some modified version of Nazism as I previously stated, why are he majority of our nations enemies non-caucasions? Give me a legetimate answer… and I’ll shut up. Beyond the answers I’ve given you so far? Well, try this one on for size, then: **the majority of our nation’s enemies are non-caucasians because the majority of the world’s population is non-caucasian**. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/42 "2004-03-19T17:15:41Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > I just want to know that if our Govt is not on a crusade to create some NEW WORLD ORDER based on white supremacy or some modified version of Nazism as I previously stated, why are he majority of our nations enemies non-caucasions? Give me a legetimate answer… and I’ll shut up. Our primary foreign policy consideration from 1945 to 1990 was preparing for what was seen as an inevitable future war with the Soviet Union. So, we allied with regimes, white, black, brown, or whatever color, that were anti-Soviet. The answer to your question is that the non-Caucasian part of the world was mainly where the Cold War was fought. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/43 "2004-03-19T17:36:13Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Hold on a second… > > _Browses through the script pages_ > > Wasn´t Karl Rove the Prince of Darkness? 😃 No, no, of course not! Study your Scripture! Rove is the False Prophet! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/44 "2004-03-19T17:37:41Z")
> [@far\_born](#): > > I would have taken Clinton to task for it too, and he was taken to task by Chomsky IIRC. The most notable difference between the two is that Bush doesn’t seem to mind actually going to war. Oh, please. Chomsky has said much more spiteful things about the United States than various Administrations have in calling Iran a rogue state, a outlaw country, or whathaveyou. Plus, I don’t think Chomsky is exactly an authority in politely debating topics of international concern, especially given his lengthy record of impunging the character of those who disagree with him; not to mention that he has cried “American genocide” more times than a historical revisionist Chicken Little. > [@](#): > > Washington doesn’t seem to be making a fuss about the lack of democracy in Pakistan. More could be done there, no doubt. But Pakistan is a horse of a different color. Just because we do not have harsh words for Pakistan does not mean that Iran should get a free pass on truthful criticism. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/45 "2004-03-19T17:43:00Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > It’s camapaign sesaon, boys and girls. If your going to get yourself worked up into a dander everytime one of these guys does some posturing (or is alleged to have done so), it’s going to be a rough 8 months… Get used to it, **John.** This is going to be the bitterest, most hotly contested presidential election since 1972. And I confidently predict the vote total will be as close as it was in 2000. It is, indeed, going to be a rough 8 months. I just hope it ends there . . . ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/46 "2004-03-19T19:40:00Z")
[Here’s a link](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/03/20040317-3.html) to a recent Cheney speech. > [@](#): > > Khan and his associates sold nuclear technology and know-how to outlaw regimes around the world, including Iran and North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/47 "2004-03-19T20:17:55Z")
Over the past couple of years there have been many demonstrations and marches by Iranians against their government. The government has responded with violence and repression. What Cheney is doing is signalling to the protestors and reformers that the US government is aware of their cause and supports it. It is the administrations hope that there will be a revolution in Iran that will replace the theocracy with a democracy. Such speeches as Cheney are an easy way to encourage this revolution. I remember how much Sakharov was heartened by Reagan’s evil empire speech, hopefully Cheney’s will have similar impact and if it does not we will see if they can think up a worse insult than Great Satan. This has been such an interesting thread. On one hand there is a theocracy who has been of the biggest supporters of terror, and has one of the worst human rights records in the world, and on the other hand the Bush administration. It has been very illumating to see people taking sides in this conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/48 "2004-03-19T21:04:31Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Well, you can make the argument that that is exactly what is happening - the people in Iran have been demonstrating, striking, and in general pushing for greater freedom. The hardliner crackdown is the inevitable result. It remains to be seen how this will shake out yet. > > There have also been demonstrations and demands for Democracy in Syria. Quite significant ones. I’ve seen mention of these in the exile press. Amazing how the mainstream press is pretty much pretending they don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/49 "2004-03-19T21:43:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Sam Stone > Well, you can make the argument that that is exactly what is happening - the people in Iran have been demonstrating, striking, and in general pushing for greater freedom. The hardliner crackdown is the inevitable result. It remains to be seen how this will shake out yet [This](http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/Default.asp?NewsCode=23421&NewsKind=Current%20Affairs) is what you pin your hopes on? It doesn’t even rise to the level of last winter’s demonstrations in Tehran. The refomers appear to be getting weaker and weaker as Iran’s Hard Right responds to Bush’s Hard Right: [Conservatives set sights on Iran’s presidency](http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_26-2-2004_pg4_20) > [@](#): > > TEHRAN: With the armed forces, judiciary, powerful watchdogs and now parliament under their control, Iran’s conservatives have their sights set on the presidency, the last bastion still in the hands of reformers. It’s not at all surprising to find the Iranian reformers being labeled “appeasers”, “traitors to the revolution” and such. That sort of rhetoric makes regular appearances in both the Tehran Times and the American press. It’s how the hard right, regardless of country or underlying ideology operates. Repeated losses by the Iran moderates, as encouraged by Bush, will NOT bring about democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/50 "2004-03-19T23:09:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Your theory about non-white nations simply doesn’t hold any water. > > Given your reliability so far in this thread, I think I’ll take you up on this offer. Anyone here who’s white and has served in the Army, wanna verify what **starguard** has said? Well…anyone? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/51 "2004-03-19T23:46:54Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > Well…anyone? Moderators I hope you will grant me a little leeway, in light of the fact that Space Cadet asked for this. You XXXX XXX, I spent many years in the US Military, I was a Paratrooper and served in a Special Operations unit (Not Special Forces) in Desert Storm. I was awarded the Combat Infantrymans Badge and was decorated for actions in combat. I also lead a National Guard Infantry Unit during the riots in L.A… Never, not once were either I or any of the troops under my command instructed to hate anybody. We were trained to be professionals, to be instruments of enforcing US foriegn policy as directed by the Commander in Chief. It was not our job to debate that foreign policy. I was trained to kill if need be, and I did. I did not hate those that died, and I cetrtainly did not do it for ideological reasons. I take offense at you insinuating that American soldiers are acting out of some political beliefs. I am about as Anti GWB as anybody, I despise the current waste of my fellow soldiers lives in a pointless tragedy. But I hate even more that pin heads who know absolutely nothing insinuate that our troops are anything but professional soldiers who may or may not agree with their orders, but nevertheless follow those orders. you want an example of your XXXXXX > [@](#): > > Invaded (I believe it was columbia) and jailed Manuel Norewaga The invasion of PANAMA was only on every TV station for months, yet you think NORIEGA was the president of COLUMBIA. Isn’t there some star you can go guard, you ain’t helping the fight against ignorance. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Nietzsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8dc957/32.png) [@Nietzsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nietzsche)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/52 "2004-03-20T07:00:40Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I’m not sure what constitutes an ‘outlaw’ regime, but can we at least call them a bunch of assholes? You’ve got my vote there. In regards to the OP, I don’t think it serves any purpose other than those you’ve suggested. It is more of the same bellicose posturing which has been coming from both sides. I guess this is the show Tehran and Washington have agreed to put on for public consumption. There have clearly been high level contacts between the two nations since September 11, 2001 and I’m sure the question of “are we next?” has been addressed. I’m relatively certain Iran’s not going to be attacked militarily since there has been a huge amount of international investment made in developing it’s oil and natural gas fields. There’s no way those other nations and consortiums would have made multi-billion dollar deals if they hadn’t made sure the U.S. wasn’t planning on doing some shocking and aweing in Iran soon. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/53 "2004-03-20T07:42:43Z")
> [@](#): > > when just about everyone that has ever served in there will tell you that almost everyone in combat arms are either black or some other minority Christ every time I read this thread I notice some more BS posted by you. I said before I spent many years in the Army, in the Airborne Infantry, and I say you are full of crap. The rest of my answer will be posted in the pit, when I can calm down enough to type a coherent sentence in response to your absolute LIES. I also doubt you ever spent a single day in the US military. Now its personal-the rest of you should just ignore this, it is between me and stargard. I have no doubt that many of you will try to jump in but I do not care nor will I respond. THIS IS PERSONAL BETWEEN ME AND STARGARD! ---
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/54 "2004-03-20T07:53:09Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Moderators I hope you will grant me a little leeway, in light of the fact that Space Cadet asked for this. > You XXXX XXX, I spent many years in the US Military, I was a Paratrooper and served in a Special Operations unit (Not Special Forces) in Desert Storm. I was awarded the Combat Infantrymans Badge and was decorated for actions in combat. I also lead a National Guard Infantry Unit during the riots in L.A… Never, not once were either I or any of the troops under my command instructed to hate anybody. We were trained to be professionals, to be instruments of enforcing US foriegn policy as directed by the Commander in Chief. It was not our job to debate that foreign policy. I was trained to kill if need be, and I did. I did not hate those that died, and I cetrtainly did not do it for ideological reasons. I take offense at you insinuating that American soldiers are acting out of some political beliefs. > > I am about as Anti GWB as anybody, I despise the current waste of my fellow soldiers lives in a pointless tragedy. But I hate even more that pin heads who know absolutely nothing insinuate that our troops are anything but professional soldiers who may or may not agree with their orders, but nevertheless follow those orders. > > you want an example of your XXXXXX > > The invasion of PANAMA was only on every TV station for months, yet you think NORIEGA was the president of COLUMBIA. > > Isn’t there some star you can go guard, you ain’t helping the fight against ignorance. :rolleyes: Oohhh I believe I struck a nerve haven’t I. You’re missing one thing friend…\*\* I served many years in the Military too\*\*. So I think you are hgoing to find it a little bit harder to hoodwink me as you would most other people here **Moderator: before I respond to this gentleman, I want to make it clear that I am not flaming him or trying to crush his opinions. Everyone has a right to them and I invited his. I am simply going to bring to light a couple of things that he is refusing to acknowledge due to his possible inability to escape the brainwashing effects that the military has possibly imposed upon him** All the statements I have posted relating to this topic are nothing that was passed on to me from the media or anywhere else friend. They are all from actual experiences that I myself and many others indured. For myself and any of my collegues, to dare mention the very name of Dr. Martin Luther King alone to any of the europeans would be enough to get oneself killed in there almost right there on the spot. I witnessed myself many good people, many that gave even more of themselves than you claim to have, scramble out of there like a bat outta hell as soon as their enlistment was up vowing never to return because of the way they were treated or looked upon by our beloved DOD. As I started earlier. I served during the Reagan Administration You stated, and I quote: _We were trained to be professionals, to be instruments of enforcing US foreigh policy as directed by our Commander & Chief. It was not our job to debate foreign policy_ As I stated earlier, I served during the Reagan Administration. Why did our “Commander & Chief” take it upon himself to attend an Nazi reunion of the origional members of the German SS down in Bittsburg, took a tour of one of their graveyards laying reefs on the tombs and graves of these “men”, then later attended a banquet as their “Guest of Honor” while offering his condolenses to them? What could he “or anyone else for that matter” have possible hoped to acheve from that? This one act alone sparked off some of the most intense Anti-American riots that europe had seen in years (all for good reason mind you). This is the man that was dictating our “Foreign Policy” and demanded that they be carried out. What type of signal was he trying to send to the world by doing this? All while we were there, all we heard from our caucasian couterparts were statements made **to each other** like “This is OUR Army” “WE are in command” “We’re in charge” We were like "wait a minute friend, isn’t this OUR Army too? I won’t even bother posting the response we recieved, but believe me it wasn’t very favorable and many of us didn’t really appreciate it at all. Oh the stories I could tell… During that era, I have already listed **just about** all the nations that were attacked for whatever reason during Reagans time in office and I’m not going to list them again. Answer this question. Why did Reagan do this? Now you can do all the name calling and throw all the temper tamtrums you want. If the truth hurts you my friend and you can’t handle it,I have no control over that… (Nor do I want to). All of my statements were based on direct and actual events that took place during the time I served and beyond. ---
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/55 "2004-03-20T08:02:34Z")
Oh…I almost forgot In response to your quote: - The invasion of Panama was on every TV Station for months, yet you stated that Noriega was the President of Columbia \* I believe my origional statement was : \*_Invaded (I believe it was Columbia) and jailed Manuel Noriega_ I did state the phrase **(I believe)** because I was not remember at that time exactly which country he came from…I did state this…you didn’t read it correctly ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/56 "2004-03-20T08:07:14Z")
Quit Calling Me “friend” I Am Most Definately Not Your Friend! I Promise You Will See My Response In The Pit, When I Can Calm Down Enough To Flame You In A Manner You Diserve! ---
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/57 "2004-03-20T08:20:11Z")
TO everyone else who has been following these posts (including the person that started it), I want to apologise to all those who have been mislead by or misinterpreted the questions that were asked \*\*(including the caucasion servicemen that are commited solely to defending America alone and not trying to build some global white supremist regime) I intent was not to point fingers or try and make anyone look bad. My questions was make out of sheer curiosity. Looking at our recent past and the list of enemies that our DOD has fought, I simply noticed a global pattern that the US seems to be following and want to know why we ( the US ) are following it. The best answer I have recieved from here so far was that there are more non-caucasions in the world that caucasions. That’s a simple answer that can be both understood and accepted… thats all I wanted to know. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/58 "2004-03-20T08:22:00Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > Oh…I almost forgot > > In response to your quote: > > - The invasion of Panama was on every TV Station for months, yet you stated that Noriega was the President of Columbia \* > > I believe my origional statement was : > > \*_Invaded (I believe it was Columbia) and jailed Manuel Noriega_ > > I did state the phrase **(I believe)** because I was not remember at that time exactly which country he came from…I did state this…you didn’t read it correctly See? that’s what is so great about the internet, liars like you can be cought. you said > [@](#): > > - Invaded (I believe it was columbia) and jailed Manuel **Norewaga** I noticed your attempt to revise your original statement about “Norewaga” anyone can make spelling errors but to revise them and then quote them is A BANNING OFFENSE I think. Maybe you are just illeterate but in my opinion a native English speaker would not type the phrase > [@](#): > > because I was not remember which leads me to believe you are not what you claim. ---
**Author:** ![2Thick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a88e57/32.png) [@2Thick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Thick)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/59 "2004-03-20T09:00:53Z")
> [@Soup\_du\_jour](#): > > It could possibly have something to do with the money being given to terrorist organizations operating in the Occupied Territories and to Hizbullah. > > Supporting terrorists, no matter their stripe, counts as outlaw behavior. The US supported the MEK. They are named as a terrorist group by the state department. According to your definition the US government is engaging in outlaw behavior. ---
**Author:** ![2Thick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a88e57/32.png) [@2Thick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Thick)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148/60 "2004-03-20T09:04:09Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > then will keep going on and on until every non- caucasian nationin the region (and later on earth) is either militarily conqured or enviromentally enslaved. Read a book sometime. Iranians are Aryans. They are the original white meat (albeit some are mixed depending on the region). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-irans-government-is-an-outlaw-regime/235148.md?page=4)