# Cheney/Liebermann takes Election 2000? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 2, 2000, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455 "2000-11-02T21:32:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/1 "2000-11-02T21:32:28Z")
On **The Today Show** this morning, commentator [Tim Russert (Russert on the Campaign’s Last Mile)](http://www.msnbc.com/m/v/video_news.asp) outlined a scenario (albeit a remote one) where Bush and Gore each got 269 electoral votes. This throws the election to the house, where each state’s delegation gets one vote; but, in the general election, the makeup of the delegations are split 25-25. The house deadlocks at 25 votes for each candidate, throwing the election to the Senate, who by law must choose a vice president who will serve as acting President. However, the makeup of the Senate is also changes in the general election, with 50 Republicans and 50 Democrats. This vote on Liebermann or Cheney deadlocks, and Al Gore, as president pro tem of the Senate, casts the tie breaking vote for Joe Liebermann. We now have Liebermann as acting President, who must nominate a candidate for President for the Senate and House to confirm. However, Liebermann has now vacated his Senate seat from Connecticut, and the Republican governor appoints a Republican to fill his seat, breaking the tie, 51-49. Liebermann, realizing a Democrat cannot be confirmed, nominates Cheney for President, who is confirmed, and we end up with Dick Cheney as President, and Joe Liebermann as Vice President. Admittedly, this scenario presumes an awful lot: the election is a tie in the Electoral College, the makeup of the House and Senate both shift to 50-50, and Joe Liebermann is nominated as acting Vice President. However outlandish and unlikely, is the scenario sound as far as how it _could_ work, or is there a flaw (other than extreme probabilities) that would prevent this from happening? ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/2 "2000-11-02T21:38:00Z")
VERY CLEVER!!! I like it. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/3 "2000-11-02T22:01:38Z")
I don’t like his user name. In fact, it’s the only thing that scares me… 😉 * * * Yer pal, [Satan](http://www.members.tripod.com/jmspoofe/sdmb/satan.jpg) \*I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Six months, three weeks, three days, 20 hours, 6 minutes and 53 seconds. 8313 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,039.19. Extra life with Drain Bead: 4 weeks, 20 hours, 45 minutes. **David B used me as a cite!** \* ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/4 "2000-11-02T22:10:18Z")
Why would Liebermann pick Cheney anyway? Why not someone else? I saw this quote somewhere, but I don’t remember where : “The closest election race in years? What do you expect from the closest candidates in years?” I’m voting for FDR. It’s the next best thing to another term in office … and maybe he can help Satan with his fears. ---
**Author:** ![malden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@malden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malden)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/5 "2000-11-02T22:25:08Z")
Re: the third paragraph of the OP: Does it matter if the “new” Senate is split 50-50? I thought the new senate doesn’t begin its session until January. I think the **current** Senate would be voting. ---
**Author:** ![malden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@malden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malden)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/6 "2000-11-02T22:33:14Z")
Also, a minor nitpick: Gore is not president _pro tempore_ of the Senate; he is President of the Senate. Strom Thurmond ® is President _pro tempore_. The post is right that Gore would be the one to break a tie in a Senate vote. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/7 "2000-11-02T22:33:49Z")
The new Congress gets sworn in on January 3. The Electoral votes are counted on January 6. How would an acting vice-president nominate a president? Presumably, the House would keep voting until it had a winner. Someone would give in eventually. That’s what happened in 1800 with Burr and Jefferson. ---
**Author:** ![malden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@malden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malden)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/8 "2000-11-02T22:39:58Z")
Having the election go into the House of Representatives would really rile up people from the District of Columbia because they have no delegation to the House or Senate (other than a non-voting rep). So the states would vote 25-25 and Eleanor Holmes Norton would just sit there with steam coming out her ears. I don’t think there is any provision for DC to vote in a presidential tiebreaker; if there were, there could be no Bush-Gore tie. ---
**Author:** ![Arjuna34](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Arjuna34](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arjuna34)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/9 "2000-11-02T22:50:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by panamajack \* > \*\* > I saw this quote somewhere, but I don’t remember where : > > “The closest election race in years? What do you expect from the closest candidates in years?” > \*\* That quote is from this week’s Onion ([www.theonion.com](http://www.theonion.com)), under the What Do You Think section, at the upper left of the home page. Arjuna34 ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2000, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/10 "2000-11-03T04:22:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > How would an acting vice-president nominate a president? True, there’s no provision for it. In fact, the 20th Amendment says that the VP becomes acting President if the President has not been chosen by the beginning of the term. Assuming the deadlock is not broken, I would guess that President Liebermann will then have to nominate someone to fill the empty VP position as required by the 25th Amendment. So what the hell, why not choose Gore… ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2000, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/11 "2000-11-03T13:03:43Z")
If the house nor the Senate can decide on a Pres. or VP, the chain of presidential succession kicks in, and Denny Hastert becomes President, with Strom Thurmond being VP. If ol’ Strom dies, Madeline Albright becomes VP. Odd, huh? Jman ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2000, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/12 "2000-11-03T13:05:32Z")
That should be: if they CAN’T decide. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2000, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/13 "2000-11-03T13:07:13Z")
Nevermind, I’m an idiot. (read, Jman, read!!) ---
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2000, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/14 "2000-11-03T14:17:06Z")
It should be noted that Amendment XII to the [U.S. Constitution](http://www.usconstitution.net/const.txt) requires that a President be elected by a _majority_ of electors or (if it is the electing body) of states’ votes as determined by the House of Representatives. A plurality (269 votes or less in the EC, or 25 or less in the House) doesn’t cut it. Thus, if a vote in the House went, say, 25 states for Bush, 20 for Gore, five not voting (because their delegations are evenly split), that’s not a vote for Bush; that’s a “no decision”. Likewise, a vote of 269 for Bush, 268 for Gore, and one for Nader in the EC wouldn’t elect Bush; it would throw the decision to the House. A candidate not getting a majority in the EC is still, IMHO, unlikely, but not as unlikely as a tie vote. The House failing to elect (on the first vote, at least; they would have two weeks, IIRC, before a Vice-President elected by the Senate became acting President, and that would be time for a goodly number of ballots) is much more likely, if the decision comes to it. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2000, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/15 "2000-11-03T14:46:01Z")
If Lieberman were to become Acting President under that scenario, he would more likely delay designating a VP than name Cheney. Under that scenario, as noted, the Speaker of the House would be next in line. If it’s Hastert, then you have your Republican. If the Democrats take the House, then it’s most likely Gephardt and you have a Democratic line of succession. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2000, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/16 "2000-11-04T00:19:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jman \* > If the house nor the Senate can decide on a Pres. or VP, the chain of presidential succession kicks in, and Denny Hastert becomes President, with Strom Thurmond being VP. If ol’ Strom dies, Madeline Albright becomes VP. Odd, huh? It turns out that the Constitution allows for the case where neither a President nor a VP has been elected by the beginning of the term: > [@](#): > > _20th Amendment (in part)_ > Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified. Furthermore, you misunderstand how the succession works. If the President and Vice President positions are both vacant, then the next person in line (the Speaker of the House) becomes President, but the person in line behind him or her (President pro tempore of the Senate) does not become VP. In this situation, the VP position would be filled according to the procedure outlined in the 25th Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![3waygeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/e95f7d/32.png) [@3waygeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3waygeek)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2000, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/17 "2000-11-04T00:34:59Z")
dtilque wrote: > [@](#): > > Assuming the deadlock is not broken, I would guess that President Liebermann will then have to nominate someone to fill the empty VP position as required by the 25th Amendment. So what the hell, why not choose Gore… Then once Gore is confirmed, Liberman can resign, making Gore the President, who then appoints Liberman as VP. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2000, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/18 "2000-11-04T01:30:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 3waygeek \* > \*\*dtilque wrote: > > > [@](#): > > > > Assuming the deadlock is not broken, I would guess that President Liebermann will then have to nominate someone to fill the empty VP position as required by the 25th Amendment. So what the hell, why not choose Gore… > > Then once Gore is confirmed, Liberman can resign, making Gore the President, who then appoints Liberman as VP. \*\* Under this scenario, Liebermann is only the Acting President; as soon as a President is confirmed by both houses of Congress, he reverts to VP. That being said, you guys apparently missed this part of my OP: > [@](#): > > We now have Liebermann as acting President, who must nominate a candidate for President for the Senate and House to confirm. However, Liebermann has now vacated his Senate seat from Connecticut, and the Republican governor appoints a Republican to fill his seat, breaking the tie, 51-49. > > Liebermann, realizing a Democrat cannot be confirmed, nominates Cheney for President, who is confirmed, and we end up with Dick Cheney as President, and Joe Liebermann as Vice President Now, Liebermann could nominate anybody, but only a Republican could be confirmed. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2000, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/19 "2000-11-04T01:38:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 3waygeek \* > dtilque wrote: > > > [@](#): > > > > Assuming the deadlock is not broken, I would guess that President Liebermann will then have to nominate someone to fill the empty VP position as required by the 25th Amendment. So what the hell, why not choose Gore… > > Then once Gore is confirmed, Liberman can resign, making Gore the President, who then appoints Liberman as VP. But Gore would be the perfect VP as he has so much experience… But seriously, the Constitution makes clear that in this situation, the VP acting as President would be strictly temporary and only last until the deadlock is broken in the House. So Liebermann (or Cheney) appointing a VP probably wouldn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2000, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-liebermann-takes-election-2000/39455/20 "2000-11-04T03:40:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fear Itself \* > That being said, you guys apparently missed this part of my OP: > > > [@](#): > > > > We now have Liebermann as acting President, who must nominate a candidate for President for the Senate and House to confirm. No, we didn’t miss it. We pointed out that there’s an error in that statement which makes the remainder of the scenario in the OP irrelevant. The VP, acting as President does not nominate a President to be confirmed by Congress. It’s possible he might nominate a VP, but as I indicated in another post, the temporary nature of the position would make that unlikely. > [@](#): > > Now, Liebermann could nominate anybody, but only a Republican could be confirmed. In the two cases so far where a President has nominated a VP, they chose someone from their own party. Despite the fact that the other party was in power in both houses of Congress, they confirmed both nominations.