# Cheney: Never met Edwards before tonight **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813 "2004-10-06T05:36:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/61 "2004-10-06T17:44:13Z")
Follow up: Daily Kos indicates that there have been 6 Cheney tie-breaking votes, and Edwards has been present for all 6. In addition, with specific reference to Cheney’s statement about being up there most Tuesdays (which he implied related to his role as President of the Senate), Cheney has actually presided over the Senate on a Tuesday … TWICE in the past four years. Hard to meet people when you aren’t showing up. Interestingly, it appears that Edwards has also presided over the Senate twice in the past four years, filling in when Cheney has failed to appear. Ooops. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/62 "2004-10-06T17:44:14Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Why is no one mentioning that Edwards had every opportunity to debunk Cheney’s scathing remark by pointing out these meetings himself? Could it be because he’d forgotten them himself? It’s interesting to me that these meetings are now coming to light due to the research being employed by the media and Edwards’ own team, rather than from Edwards himself. And again, the point remains: Edwards’ attendance record in the Senate is abysmal, and this was the point Cheney was making. No one is disputing that. So isn’t this sort of like ignoring the theft of an automobile to argue over whether or not it should have been left unlocked? Actually, Edwards said (after the debate) that he knew Cheney had stated something false, and Edwards’ wife told Cheney that directly when the wives joined the husbands on the stage. I figure Edwards wasn’t about to responde to what (superficially, at least) appeared to be a warm greeting into a snotty little rejoinder. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/63 "2004-10-06T17:45:18Z")
Correction to my post above - Edwards has filled in to do Cheney’s job **on Tuesday** twice, according to Daily Kos. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/64 "2004-10-06T18:07:13Z")
President of the senate for the past four years. That would be Cheney. Now there are a hundred members of the Senate, give or take a few seats due to retirements or deaths(i.e. senator Wellstone). So you’re the leader of a group of about a hundred people for four years and there are some of them you haven’t met? Quite frankly I think it would be more of an indictment of Cheney if it were true than if it were false. Still kind of amusing to see the backfire of the comment. Designed to be a subtle dig at Edwards while re-inforcing the campaign smears about him and Kerry being frequently absent from the senate, just ends up being headline news. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/65 "2004-10-06T18:17:57Z")
(On preview, I see that some of this has already been posted, but not all.) > [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Now that I think about it, there must be a record of how many times Cheney has appeared at the Senate during a session (and not counting times that he attends Republican strategy sessions). There should also be a record of whether Edwards was also there at those times. I would like to see these numbers, if anyone knows how to access them. You ask, [the Kossacks deliver](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/11163/2940). (Well, most of it, anyway.) Let’s recall the quote: > [@Dick Cheney](#): > > Your hometown newspaper has taken to calling you “Senator Gone.” You’ve got one of the worst attendance records in the United States Senate. > > Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I’m up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they’re in session. > > The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight. Most Tuesdays, eh? In the past four years (see the link), Cheney’s presided over the Senate on exactly **two** Tuesdays. I haven’t checked (nor have they) to see if Edwards was there on either of those occasions. It hardly seems worth bothering with. BUT - Edwards has presided over the Senate on two Tuesdays in the past four years. So it seems like Cheney’s the slacker, and Edwards (at least on Tuesdays) is performing as much of Cheney’s Constitututional duty as Cheney is. Whaddaya know! And Edwards’ hometown newspaper calling him “Senator Gone” [was also a lie](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/13143/3874). Sure, there _was_ a NC paper that pinned that moniker on Edwards once. But it wasn’t his hometown daily; it was a weekly in some other town. Wow, that’s three big Cheney whoppers with extra cheese, in five short sentences. Can you say “pathological liar”? I _knew_ you could! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/66 "2004-10-06T18:25:57Z")
I’m intrigued by the morality of someone who thinks Edwards’ “poor Senate performance” (has this even been established as fact yet, btw?) is less important than the Vice President of the United States ripping off a series of whopping lies on national television, apparently figuring that people will believe him because of the office he holds. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/67 "2004-10-06T18:28:18Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I haven’t checked (nor have they) to see if Edwards was there on either of those occasions. It hardly seems worth bothering with. I may be wrong, but I think that one of those instances was during the swearing in ceremony, for which there is photographic evidence of Dick Cheney and John Edwards being there at the same time. I would otherwise agree that hardly seems worth bothering with, except that it is great to highlight Cheney’s lies, and a statement that every single time Cheney was present in the Senate, Edwards was also there would be pretty devastating to Cheney’s lies. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that that is true: EVERY TIME, 100% of the instances when Cheney was present at a Senate session, Edwards was also there. I look forward to proof either way. > [@](#): > > Can you say “pathological liar”? I _knew_ you could! The best take on this I saw today was “Chenocchio.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/68 "2004-10-06T18:31:34Z")
> [@RTFireflyAnd Edwards' hometown newspaper calling him "Senator Gone" \[was also a lie](#): > > ([http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/13143/3874](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/13143/3874)). Sure, there _was_ a NC paper that pinned that moniker on Edwards once. But it wasn’t his hometown daily; it was a weekly in some other town. Wow–good catch! Even I, who assume Cheney is lying whenever he opens his mouth, was assuming that the [Raleigh News and Observer](http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/politicians/edwards/story/1705455p-7958886c.html) had coined this epithet. The N&O is one of the better-respected dailies in NC, along with the Charlotte Oberver, so such an editorial from them would pack some weight. But nobody’s ever heard of the Pilot. And Southern Pines is most famous for being a rich golfing community (at least, that’s most of what I heard about them when I lived in Durham), hardly a place that represents most of North Carolina. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/69 "2004-10-06T18:35:08Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Wow–good catch! Even I, who assume Cheney is lying whenever he opens his mouth, was assuming that the [Raleigh News and Observer](http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/politicians/edwards/story/1705455p-7958886c.html) had coined this epithet. Fixed link in above. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/70 "2004-10-06T18:48:34Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Wow–good catch! Can’t take credit; just reading the blogs, and passing along the good catches of others. (Now the [Subchapter S catch](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/91942/9557) - [that was all mine](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279334). :)) And you’re right - the gulf between the _Raleigh News & Observer_, which even many of us Yankees recognize as a quality paper, and the _Pilot_, which it seems not even that many NC residents know of, is immense. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/71 "2004-10-06T19:07:37Z")
Honestly, gang, I think that this is much sound and fury signifying nothing. Cheney took an opportunity to dig at Edwards and Edwards refused to rise to his bait. As a matter of fact, what impressed me most last night was Cheney’s refusing to play defense. Now, it meant that he refused to answer certain questions on occasion, but I was still mightily impressed. And just so that **Bricker** neither misses it nor thinks that it slipped my mind, I’m still curious to know if he will respond to my contentions made in [post #19](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5336107&postcount=19)? Because it fairly smacks of disingenuousnessicityism to claim that Cheney gives no more weight to Edwards than he does to the average prole. As to **Starving Artist** , well, I’m damned if I know what you’re on about. I mean really! “Most lame”? Here I was thinking that you were capable of better. I am once more disappointed. More’s the pity. . . And: “Chenocchio” - heh ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/72 "2004-10-06T19:58:43Z")
_Conclusion:_ Cheney can only win a debate when he **totally makes up shit.** Wonder if Bush will adopt that tactic on Friday? Oh, please do! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/73 "2004-10-06T20:22:25Z")
Eh. Not a huge deal as far as I am concerned. It would have been much smarter if Cheney had said, "As far as I can recall . . . " and he certainly should have done that. Because the cited “meetings” that these two have had do not sound very memorable, especially if you are super busy and meeting all sorts of suits constantly. It would be difficult, I’d guess, to distinguish whether you’d _met_ someone or merely seen them from a distance or on TV coverage. You know who they are, but is it because you _met_ them, or because you saw them on TV? I would think that it might be easier to remember meeting someone if something significant or substantial would had taken place–a fleeting handshake in a hallway or some other slight encounter might not cut it. I’m guessing that’s what happened here. Cheney should have been smarter about how he phrased it, though, and that surprises me. Say what you will about him, he seems shrewder than that–to allow himself to get caught into such an easy trap. He’s probably met almost everyone in Washington, but simply can’t remember all of them. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/74 "2004-10-06T21:46:29Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > Eh. Not a huge deal as far as I am concerned. It would have been much smarter if Cheney had said, "As far as I can recall . . . " and he certainly should have done that. Because the cited “meetings” that these two have had do not sound very memorable, especially if you are super busy and meeting all sorts of suits constantly. Yeah, but when it’s one of three whoppers in a mere five sentences on one subject, it’s no longer a matter of careless omission. In the words of Goldfinger, “Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence. The third time it’s enemy action.” I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/75 "2004-10-07T06:43:57Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > Eh. Not a huge deal as far as I am concerned. It would have been much smarter if Cheney had said, "As far as I can recall . . . " and he certainly should have done that. Because the cited “meetings” that these two have had do not sound very memorable, especially if you are super busy and meeting all sorts of suits constantly. Please. Edwards is not just a suit, he is one of 100 members of the US Senate. Especially when the Democrats had a majority, every senator was important. No politician got anywhere forgetting faces. BTW, the way the comment was dropped in shows clearly that it was not off the cuff, but prepared and practiced. But I’m sure Edwards had thought about attending, and had organized senate attending activities, so for Bushies that’s just the same, right? Bush and Cheney lie so much, that it’s become routine. A lie like this is trivial compared to the lies about Iraq’s nuclear capability. Bushies like SA have become so desensitized, they don’t care about the truth anymore. Eat with the pigs, and you come up smelling like shit. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/76 "2004-10-07T07:26:10Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Please. Edwards is not just a suit, he is one of 100 members of the US Senate. Especially when the Democrats had a majority, every senator was important. No politician got anywhere forgetting faces. Who said anything about forgetting faces? I am sure that Cheney knew who he was, very well. I don’t doubt that Cheney knew that he’d glanced at Edwards somewhere, sometime. What I _don’t_ know (at this point) is whether Cheney remembered one of the meetings that he had with Edwards. > [@](#): > > BTW, the way the comment was dropped in shows clearly that it was not off the cuff, but prepared and practiced. Sure it was. Which makes it all the more astonishing that Cheney didn’t use a qualifyer like "to my recollection . . . " or something like that. Pretty stupid. But a calculated lie? Okay, perhaps. But more likely, a stupid, mistake that now is biting him in the butt–and was _destined_ to bite him in the butt since it was so easy to verify as not true. Look. The reason I don’t make a big deal of this is because I know how my own memory works. I honestly don’t always remember encountering someone. My sister is constantly reminding me of stuff I did, places I went to, people I met. (She seems to have a far better memory for some of this stuff–I guess my head is stuffed with movie trivia or something.) I also know how it is to travel back and forth between two different places a lot (L.A. and Hooterville) and how confusing that can make things as well. I can’t remember for the life of me–did I go to the Comp USA in Hooterville to do that thing, or was it in L.A.? Are there any [insert chain store here) in Hooterville or are they only in L.A.? Did I actually go there, or did I just talk about going there? Did I go somewhere else instead? Sometimes, I cannot remember. I’m not feeble-minded, I’ve just got other stuff jumbled in my brain. I doesn’t mean that I have forgotten the existence of certain things, it just means that it gets a little confusing. Therefore, I simply do not find it too hard to believe that this very busy guy can’t remember some apparently not terribly significant encounters with another guy, especially when this very busy guy is meeting people all the damned day, and they’re _all_ Really Important People. But sure, he could be lying. He could have decided to deliberately lie, even though he must have known that his lie could easily be refuted, thus embarassing him. It’s possible. Mind-numbingly stupid and un-shrewd (which doesn’t sound like Cheney to me), but possible. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/77 "2004-10-07T07:50:19Z")
Personally, I’m amused that [FactCheck.Org](http://www.factcheck.org), the site whose name Cheney screwed up, is calling him a liar on this issue of the Edwards meeting. NOT ONLY THAT, but Cheney told people to check the site as a rebuttal to Edwards’s comments on Halliburton. FactCheck says of those, “In fact, we did post an article pointing out that Cheney hasn’t profited personally while in office from Halliburton’s Iraq contracts, as falsely implied by a Kerry TV ad. But Edwards was talking about Cheney’s responsibility for earlier Halliburton troubles. And in fact, Edwards was mostly right.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/78 "2004-10-07T13:10:01Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > Look. The reason I don’t make a big deal of this is because I know how my own memory works. I honestly don’t always remember encountering someone. My sister is constantly reminding me of stuff I did, places I went to, people I met. (She seems to have a far better memory for some of this stuff–I guess my head is stuffed with movie trivia or something.) Imagine this. The police call you down to the station, because a Kwikkie Mart was recently robbed. They’ve got a suspect in custody, but he claims that during the time that the store was robbed, he was at a party, and he knows you were at the party, too. The police have called you down to corroborate your story. You don’t remember seeing him at the party. **Do you tell the police that this is the first time you’ve met him?** My point is that, if you know your memory for faces isn’t perfect, and if volunteering the information that you’ve never met a person before will seriously impugn their character, **you shouldn’t volunteer that goddamn information**. Was Cheney lying? I doubt it: I doubt that, when he said those words, he knew they were false. However, I strongly suspect that **he didn’t know those words were true**. And playing fast and loose with the truth, not bothering to get your facts straight as long as it allows you to perform a character assassination, is almost as bad as telling deliberate lies. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/79 "2004-10-07T13:26:32Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Was Cheney lying? I doubt it: I doubt that, when he said those words, he knew they were false. However, I strongly suspect that **he didn’t know those words were true**. You may be right here, but I strongly suspect that Cheney knew it wasn’t true. He just doesn’t care. He’s putting out a sales pitch. He’d prefer one which he thought would work, and was also true, but he doesn’t have anything like that available. He down to a choice between one which he thinks might work, but isn’t true, and another one which is true but he thinks probably won’t work. He values the sale more than anything else, so which one does he go for? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813/80 "2004-10-07T13:38:03Z")
I’ve got it figured out! Cheney was baiting Edwards in the hope that Edwards would correct him and remind him of their prayer breakfast (or other insignificant meeting), thereby allowing Cheney to make more hay out of the ironic fact that when they _did_ meet, it _still_ wasn’t in the Senate. The fact that Edwards himself either didn’t remember meeting Cheney (althought his wife did) or chose not to respond scuttled Cheney’s clever ploy. Remember, Cheney is far more intelligent that most of the posters to this thread ( **yosemite** being the likely exception 😉 ) and he thinks on levels several layers removed from theirs. This would explain the seeming disconnect between why Cheney would say such a thing when it was not so when the fact that it was could be so easily verified, or why he didn’t add a qualifier such as “to the best of my recollection.” Tricky boy, that Cheney! 😃😃😃😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-never-met-edwards-before-tonight/267813.md?page=5)