# Cheney not in executive branch **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2007, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914 "2007-06-21T22:37:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/1 "2007-06-21T22:37:37Z")
[http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1371](http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1371) I can not wait for the defenders of Cheney to work around this one. Apparently Cheney has claimed the VP is not part of the executive branch of government. Therefore he is not held to the same standards for retaining email and correspondence that other branches ,particularly the President have to. I looked up a chart and the executive branch showed president and vice president listed below. What can I be missing? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/2 "2007-06-21T22:39:40Z")
I believe this is not the first time Cheney has used this argument. Technically, the VP’s only constitutional role is to preside over the Senate and cast a tiebreaker vote (both functions rarely exercised). The VP technically has no subordinates in any chain of command within the Executive Branch. Technically. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/3 "2007-06-21T23:16:51Z")
[Error! Page Not Found !!](http://bensguide.gpo.gov/3-5/government/branches.html) This is a chart showing VP as in executive. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/4 "2007-06-21T23:20:30Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] [http://bensguide.gpo.gov/3-5/government/branches.html](http://bensguide.gpo.gov/3-5/government/branches.html) This is a chart showing VP as in executive. [/QUOTE] But there’s no one **under** him, is there? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/5 "2007-06-21T23:22:18Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] I can not wait for the defenders of Cheney to work around this one. Apparently Cheney has claimed the VP is not part of the executive branch of government. [/QUOTE] Well, when you consider his trampling of the Constitution, one should not be surprised. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/6 "2007-06-21T23:31:05Z")
I do note that Cheney is asserting he is not in the Executive only “for purposes of securing classified information.” If a Congressional committee asks him to testify about something he would rather not discuss, he will, of course, invoke “executive privilege” in a heartbeat (or its equivalent in Cheney’s anatomy). Yet another instance of this Admin trying to have it both ways – like Guantanamo Bay, which is held to be outside U.S. territory for legal and constitutional purposes even though the U.S. controls it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/7 "2007-06-21T23:36:12Z")
Of course, any member of **Congress** can be expelled by a simple majority vote of his or her house. No impeachment is required. So . . . 😃 ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/8 "2007-06-22T01:53:27Z")
Well, he’s definitely not a member of Congress, although he actually might be a member of the Legislative branch. While it’s called vice-pres, I don’t atually see anything specific in the COnstitution which specifies it. The President essentially is the executive, Congress legislative, supreme court judicial, etc. The VP was originally such a different post. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/9 "2007-06-22T01:56:01Z")
When the president gets impeached ,who takes over. Would that not put the VP in executive by itself. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/10 "2007-06-22T02:04:42Z")
I’ve just done a quick search – this isn’t exacrly new – Cheney’s office made this claim back in February, but nobody seems to have noticed: > [@](#): > > Mon, 2007-02-12 22:06 — jrjacobs > The Office of the Vice President (OVP) is refusing to cooperate with a government directory known as the “Plum Book,” which lists government employees. Federal agencies have to comply by listing staffers in the directory, but Dick Cheney’s office claimed an exemption for itself, arguing that the “Vice Presidency is a unique office that is neither a part of the executive branch nor a part of the legislative branch.” But it’s not just the phone book with which the OVP refuses to cooperate. Evidently, the OVP is not part of the executive branch and so need not comply with ANY disclosures. > **[Cheney: OVP neither executive nor legislative branch - Free Government...](http://freegovinfo.info/node/937/)** > > The Office of the Vice President (OVP) is refusing to cooperate with a government directory known as the "Plum Book," which lists government employees. Federal agencies have to comply by listing staffers in the directory, but Dick Cheney's office... ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/11 "2007-06-22T02:09:49Z")
Here it is in a February issue of U.S. News and World Report: > [@](#): > > Cheney Tangles With Agency on Secrecy > By Chitra Ragavan > Posted 2/8/07 > An important legal ruling is pending over Vice President Cheney’s refusal to disclose statistics on document classification and declassification activity. The Information Security Oversight Office, which is responsible for the policy and oversight of the government’s security classification system, has asked Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to direct Cheney’s office to disclose these statistics. > Cheney’s office provided the information until 2002 but then stopped doing so, J. William Leonard, the director of ISOO, told U.S. News. At issue is whether the office of the vice president is an executive branch entity when it comes to supporting the activities of the president and the vice president. The reporting requirements for disclosing classification and declassification activity fall under a presidential executive order. > > “Basically the definition says that any entity of the executive branch that comes into possession of classified information is covered by the reporting requirements,” says Leonard. “I have my understanding of what the executive order requires, and I’m going to the attorney general to ascertain if my reading of the executive order is correct.” > > However, Megan McGinn, Cheney’s deputy press secretary, says the vice president’s office is exempt. > > “This matter has been thoroughly reviewed,” McGinn told U.S. News, “and it has been determined that reporting requirements do not apply to the office of the vice president, which has both legislative and executive functions.” Under the Constitution, the vice president serves as president of the Senate. [http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070208/8cheney.htm?s\_cid=rss:site1](http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070208/8cheney.htm?s_cid=rss:site1) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/12 "2007-06-22T02:16:58Z")
Dang! It’s even older than that! Here’s an article that apparently appeared in the San Jose Mercury on April 30, 2006: > [@](#): > > Cheney asserts VP office has power to ignore President’s Executive Order > News Type: Event — Seeded on Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:25 AM EDTArticle Source: The San Jose Mercury Newspolitics, bush, us, news, cheney, constitution, classified, executive-branch, executive-orderSeeded by evano > > Not content with flouting the Constitution’s limits on Executive Branch power, Cheney has put forth a new interpretation of the Constitution which says that the Vice President’s office is exempt from the President’s Executive Order requiring all Executive Branch agencies and offices to report a tally of the enumber of documents classified each year. Cheney says that because the VP’s office has executive and legislative duties – the VP is President of the Senate – he is not bound by orders applying to the Executive Branch. > > Got that? The President directs the Executive Branch by Executive Orders. If the Vice President is not required to follow those orders, then who is the most powerful person in the Government? > > "As the Bush administration has dramatically accelerated the classification of information as “top secret” or “confidential,” one office is refusing to report on its annual activity in classifying documents: the office of Vice President Dick Cheney. > > A standing executive order, strengthened by President Bush in 2003, requires all agencies and “any other entity within the executive branch” to provide an annual accounting of their classification of documents. More than 80 agencies have collectively reported to the National Archives that they made 15.6 million decisions in 2004 to classify information, nearly double the number in 2001, but Cheney continues to insist he is exempt. > > Explaining why the vice president has withheld even a tally of his office’s secrecy when such offices as the National Security Council routinely report theirs, a spokeswoman said Cheney is “not under any duty” to provide it." [http://sheep.newsvine.com/\_news/2006/04/30/182973-cheney-asserts-vp-office-has-power-to-ignore-presidents-executive-order](http://sheep.newsvine.com/_news/2006/04/30/182973-cheney-asserts-vp-office-has-power-to-ignore-presidents-executive-order) How come this has only been noticed now, over a year later? ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/13 "2007-06-22T02:26:52Z")
It looks like all the civics books were wrong for all these year. The United States actually has four branches of government: The Executive Branch The Judicial Branch The Legislative Branch …and… The Dick Branch. (swiped from Rahm Emmanuel) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/14 "2007-06-22T03:35:33Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] I’ve just done a quick search – this isn’t exacrly new – Cheney’s office made this claim back in February, but nobody seems to have noticed. [/QUOTE] Whaddya mean, no-one noticed? The Dopers noticed! [Is the Office of the Vice-President part of the Executive Branch?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=407832) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/15 "2007-06-22T03:48:04Z")
> **[Agency Is Target in Cheney Fight on Secrecy Data (Published 2007)](https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/22/washington/22cheney.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin)** > > The vice president suggested abolishing a National Archives unit that objected to his resistance to oversight. Cheney apparently believes he can do what ever he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/16 "2007-06-22T03:50:04Z")
I’ve no doubt that if the Veep was clearly in the legislative branch and subject to some form of congressional disclosure, Cheney’d be claiming executive privilege. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/17 "2007-06-22T11:51:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Whaddya mean, no-one noticed? The Dopers noticed! > > Is the Office of the Vice-President part of the Executive Branch? I missed that (the title didn’t make it obvious that it was in response to a Cheney announcement), but even Dopers didn’t sem to catch the 2006 announcement. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/18 "2007-06-22T12:31:43Z")
Of course the veep’s office shouldn’t open up its secrets. If it did, who knows what would happen? Maybe somebody might leak the name of a CIA operative. Next time anyone thinks of impeaching Chimpy, just say the words “President Cheney” and that will sober you up. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/19 "2007-06-22T12:34:57Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] When the president gets impeached ,who takes over. Would that not put the VP in executive by itself. [/QUOTE] Not really. Succession also includes the Speaker of the House, and he/she isn’t in the executive branch. ---
**Author:** ![melvin\_coznowski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b487fb/32.png) [@melvin\_coznowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melvin_coznowski)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/20 "2007-06-22T12:54:19Z")
While that’s true, Liberal, the VP is next in line after the President. Then Speaker of the House, IIRC. Unless you’re Al Haig, then all bets are off. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914.md?page=2)