# Cheney not in executive branch **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2007, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914 "2007-06-21T22:37:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/21 "2007-06-22T13:01:20Z")
I guess I don’t understand the organization of the Executive office but doesn’t the VP _report_ to the President? If so doesn’t that make the VP a member of the executive? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/22 "2007-06-22T14:31:27Z")
[QUOTE=Grey] I guess I don’t understand the organization of the Executive office but doesn’t the VP _report_ to the President? [/QUOTE] Not necessarily. The Veep is elected, so the President can’t fire him. Of course, the Veep, having no statutory authority over anyone, only has whatever power the President grants him or lets him gather to himself, so the Veep is informally answerable to the President, just as his exercise of power within the Administration is strictly informal. But if, say, the Secretary of Somethingorother was given mildly conflicting marching orders by both the President and Veep, and the Secretary took the Veep’s guidance as controlling, the President’s only recourse would be to fire the Secretary. So in a situation where the Veep has clearly been granted a fair amount of power by the President, and seems to have by far the stronger personality of the two, things get, erm, _interesting_. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/23 "2007-06-22T14:37:52Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] Of course the veep’s office shouldn’t open up its secrets. If it did, who knows what would happen? Maybe somebody might leak the name of a CIA operative. Next time anyone thinks of impeaching Chimpy, just say the words “President Cheney” and that will sober you up. [/QUOTE] Like I said in the current “Will impeachment of GWB become serious consideration?” thread, I think President Cheney would be an improvement over Unaccountable Power Behind The Throne Cheney, simply because Cheney would no longer be able to operate safely in the shadows. While it wouldn’t be worth a process of many months’ duration to remove Bush in favor of Cheney (simulpeachment, anyone?), I think the country would be better off than it is if, tomorrow morning, Bush announced to the nation that he was resigning the Presidency immediately to be Commissioner of Baseball instead, and Cheney was sworn in as President. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/24 "2007-06-22T14:48:02Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] I think the country would be better off than it is if, tomorrow morning, Bush announced to the nation that he was resigning the Presidency immediately to be Commissioner of Baseball instead, and Cheney was sworn in as President. [/QUOTE] Don’t do that to baseball! Put him in charge of NASCAR instead. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/25 "2007-06-22T15:07:13Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/22/washington/22cheney.html?\_r=1&hp&oref=slogin](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/22/washington/22cheney.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin) Cheney apparently believes he can do what ever he wants. [/QUOTE] Can’t he? He is not solely part of the executive so he doesn’t have to follow its rules and he’s not solely part of the legislative branch so he doesn’t have to follow its rules. And who’s going to stop him? GW won’t and Congress can’t because the votes aren’t there in the Senate to convict on an impeachment and throw him out. More and more we are discovering that the constituion has a lot of holes in it. An executive who is intoxicated with power and with no scruples about following the spirit of checks and balances is immune as long as members of congress consider party loyalty superior to the national interest. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/26 "2007-06-22T15:15:09Z")
[QUOTE=melvin coznowski] While that’s true, Liberal, the VP is next in line after the President. Then Speaker of the House, IIRC. [/QUOTE] For that point to be meaningful, you need to show why 1st implies executive while 2nd implies something else. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/27 "2007-06-22T15:43:20Z")
Cheney is vice president. Speaker is not vice vice president ,but clearly in another position. We can go through all who are on the succession list and discover where they reside on the pie chart. That will not remove Cheney from pie chart showing him in executive office. He is president in charge of vice. (or thinks he is) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/28 "2007-06-22T22:16:59Z")
deleted ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/29 "2007-06-22T22:37:07Z")
According to [this,](http://progressiveamericanpatriot.blogspot.com/2007/06/cheney-did-not-say-he-is-no-longer.html) Cheney does **not** say he is not part of the executive branch but that he is a member of both the executive and legislative branches . . . and, therefore, presidential directives on classified information and reporting requirements do not apply to him. No, I don’t understand the reasoning either. Seems to me he would be bound by **both** branches’ rules. Nor to I understand why Cheney doesn’t **want** to comply with this particular directive. Does anybody have an idea? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/30 "2007-06-22T22:43:16Z")
Modesty. If America became fully aware of the sacrifices Cheney has made on our behalf, the outpouring of applause and approval would embarass him. ---
**Author:** ![Public\_Animal\_No.9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Public\_Animal\_No.9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Public_Animal_No.9)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/31 "2007-06-22T22:51:07Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] But there’s no one **under** him, is there? [/QUOTE] Except George W. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/32 "2007-06-22T22:53:47Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Nor to I understand why Cheney doesn’t **want** to comply with this particular directive. Does anybody have an idea? [/QUOTE] Dan Froomkin does: [The Method to Cheney’s Madness](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/06/22/BL2007062201022.html) > [@](#): > > Why, in 2003, did Vice President Cheney suddenly become so dead-set against reporting how his office handled government secrets? > > Cheney’s refusal to abide by reporting requirements that apply to everyone else in the Bush administration – and the audacity of his excuse, that because he is also president of the Senate, his office is not really within the executive branch – led to a bunch of unflattering front-page headlines this morning. > > But let’s assume there’s a method to his madness. Perhaps Cheney is rejecting this oversight because he doesn’t want people to know what he and his aides have been doing with classified information. Or perhaps he believes in principle that he shouldn’t be subject to constraints that apply to others in the executive branch. Maybe both. I’m betting on both. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/33 "2007-06-22T22:53:57Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Nor to I understand why Cheney doesn’t **want** to comply with this particular directive. Does anybody have an idea? [/QUOTE] Perhaps if you were to write a letter asking him this, he’d offer to invite you on his next hunting trip and explain it to you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/34 "2007-06-22T22:56:29Z")
“Duck season!” “ **BrainGlutton** season!” “Duck season!” “ **BrainGlutton** season!”… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/35 "2007-06-22T23:10:46Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Modesty. If America became fully aware of the sacrifices Cheney has made on our behalf . . . [/QUOTE] Would those sacrifices involve baptized infants, or unbaptized? There’s two schools of thought there, you know. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/36 "2007-06-22T23:11:54Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Dan Froomkin does: [The Method to Cheney’s Madness](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/06/22/BL2007062201022.html) [/QUOTE] Which raises the question: What exactly **have** Cheney and his aides been doing with classified information?! A question that we may never live to see answered, of course. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/37 "2007-06-23T00:50:44Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Perhaps if you were to write a letter asking him this, he’d offer to invite you on his next hunting trip and explain it to you. [/QUOTE] Don’t Joke about that. He hunts, G-d help me, in Stuttgart, Arkansas, “Duck Capital of the World.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/38 "2007-06-23T02:13:42Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Which raises the question: What exactly **have** Cheney and his aides been doing with classified information?! A question that we may never live to see answered, of course. [/QUOTE] You mean, _besides_ outing Valerie Plame Wilson? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/39 "2007-06-23T16:21:27Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] You mean, _besides_ outing Valerie Plame Wilson? 🙂 [/QUOTE] Come to think of it, why would Cheney – or Rove – even have **access** to such information as the identities of covert CIA agents?! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914/40 "2007-06-23T16:34:30Z")
And this just in, from the Dept. of Jaw Dropping _Chutzpah_… > **[President claims oversight exemption](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2007-jun-23-na-cheney23-story.html)** > > Bush says the security requirement does not apply to him or Cheney. **Bush claims oversight exemption too** > [@](#): > > The White House says the president’s own order on classified data does not apply to his office or the vice president’s. > The White House said Friday that, like Vice President Dick Cheney’s office, President Bush’s office is not allowing an independent federal watchdog to oversee its handling of classified national security information. > > An executive order that Bush issued in March 2003 — amending an existing order — requires all government agencies that are part of the executive branch to submit to oversight. Although it doesn’t specifically say so, Bush’s order was not meant to apply to the vice president’s office or the president’s office, a White House spokesman said… Offered without needless comment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-not-in-executive-branch/408914.md?page=3)