# Cheney Re:4000 dead "They volunteered" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 24, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573 "2008-03-24T19:03:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/21 "2008-03-24T23:01:59Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Bush does not seem to carry much guilt at all.I never see him pondering over the plight of the soldiers as they extend them again and again. He doesn’t care about anything but money and power. Cheney is a prick. He is a smart ass . I can’t stand the draft dodging old prick.He only cares about money and power. [/QUOTE] Did you just use the words “Bush” and “pondering” in the same paragraph? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/22 "2008-03-24T23:15:56Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] Did you just use the words “Bush” and “pondering” in the same paragraph? 😉 [/QUOTE] Oh, I’ve done that many times. Of course, it was always in Pinky and the Brain jokes… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/23 "2008-03-24T23:41:49Z")
“One weekend a month, two weeks a year” This _was_ the slogan of the Army National Guard until the Iraq mess started. It was in almost every print, radio and television commercial, and recruiters pushed it on impressionable high schoolers. This is where the term “weekend warrior” comes from-light training, light duty, light benefits. They were supposed to be an emergency backup, fulfilling useful duties on the homefront until needed, but ready for short-term fill ins if they are really needed. Well, this has turned from a short-term emergency to a long-term clusterfuck, and in my opinion the letter of their contract with the government is being followed, but the _spirit_ of it is being broken horrendously. IMHO, every one of them that have had to go over there, a lot of them more than once, should get the exact same benefits as the regular army, and a free punt shot at their recruiter’s nads. And I don’t want to hear any crap about how they knew what they were getting into when they signed the contract. In most cases, the person explaining the contract was the recruiter, and you don’t get to be a good recruiter without knowing what to say, and what _not_ to say, to an impressionable teenager with no legal experience. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/24 "2008-03-24T23:52:13Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] “One weekend a month, two weeks a year” This _was_ the slogan of the Army National Guard until the Iraq mess started. It was in almost every print, radio and television commercial, and recruiters pushed it on impressionable high schoolers. This is where the term “weekend warrior” comes from-light training, light duty, light benefits. They were supposed to be an emergency backup, fulfilling useful duties on the homefront until needed, but ready for short-term fill ins if they are really needed. Well, this has turned from a short-term emergency to a long-term clusterfuck, and in my opinion the letter of their contract with the government is being followed, but the _spirit_ of it is being broken horrendously. IMHO, every one of them that have had to go over there, a lot of them more than once, should get the exact same benefits as the regular army, and a free punt shot at their recruiter’s nads. And I don’t want to hear any crap about how they knew what they were getting into when they signed the contract. In most cases, the person explaining the contract was the recruiter, and you don’t get to be a good recruiter without knowing what to say, and what _not_ to say, to an impressionable teenager with no legal experience. [/QUOTE] QFMFT. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/25 "2008-03-25T00:07:42Z")
In future such wars, ALL CONGRESS MEN and WOMAN (and SENAORS) MUST have THEIR sons and daughters serving in the military. Bush and Cheney have no problem sending other people’s kids off to die-let’s see how bold they are when their kids are at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/26 "2008-03-25T00:13:44Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Oh, I’ve done that many times. Of course, it was always in Pinky and the Brain jokes… [/QUOTE] Georgie, are you pondering what I’m pondering? Uh, I think so, Dick. But, me and Greta Van Susteren, I mean, what would the children look like? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/27 "2008-03-25T00:36:19Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] In future such wars, ALL CONGRESS MEN and WOMAN (and SENAORS) MUST have THEIR sons and daughters serving in the military. [/QUOTE] You know, even Bush hasn’t directly advocated killing kids just to make a political point. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/28 "2008-03-25T00:55:44Z")
[QUOTE=WF Tomba] Actually, he was conscripted into the job. God conscripted him. [/QUOTE] Technically it was the Florida Supreme Court, but still. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/29 "2008-03-25T01:01:30Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] “One weekend a month, two weeks a year” This _was_ the slogan of the Army National Guard until the Iraq mess started. It was in almost every print, radio and television commercial, and recruiters pushed it on impressionable high schoolers. This is where the term “weekend warrior” comes from-light training, light duty, light benefits. They were supposed to be an emergency backup, fulfilling useful duties on the homefront until needed, but ready for short-term fill ins if they are really needed. Well, this has turned from a short-term emergency to a long-term clusterfuck, and in my opinion the letter of their contract with the government is being followed, but the _spirit_ of it is being broken horrendously. IMHO, every one of them that have had to go over there, a lot of them more than once, should get the exact same benefits as the regular army, and a free punt shot at their recruiter’s nads. And I don’t want to hear any crap about how they knew what they were getting into when they signed the contract. In most cases, the person explaining the contract was the recruiter, and you don’t get to be a good recruiter without knowing what to say, and what _not_ to say, to an impressionable teenager with no legal experience. [/QUOTE] I agree with the spirit of your post, but just to clarify, Natnl guard and Reserve trainees go through the same basic training as regular military. We just got to get ahead of them in the chow line! Small perk, I know, and nonexistent now, really, as they are all eating shit and being told it’s steak. Which it often is. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/30 "2008-03-25T01:02:49Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] Georgie, are you pondering what I’m pondering? Uh, I think so, Dick. But, me and Greta Van Susteren, I mean, what would the children look like? [/QUOTE] RULE THE WORLD! Hilarious. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/31 "2008-03-25T01:13:24Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] I agree with the spirit of your post, but just to clarify, Natnl guard and Reserve trainees go through the same basic training as regular military. We just got to get ahead of them in the chow line! Small perk, I know, and nonexistent now, really, as they are all eating shit and being told it’s steak. Which it often is. [/QUOTE] Point taken. Personally, I never used the term “weekend warrior” when referring to those guys who showed up for duty when I was stationed at March. I referred to them as “those bastards who got to the mess hall first and ate all the banana creme pie.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/32 "2008-03-25T02:21:45Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] You know, even Bush hasn’t directly advocated killing kids just to make a political point. [/QUOTE] The Iraq war, among other things, is killing people to make a political point; an awfull lot of which are children. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/33 "2008-03-25T02:24:37Z")
[QUOTE=Ale] The Iraq war, among other things, is killing people to make a political point; an awfull lot of which are children. [/QUOTE] You don’t need to tell me. But Representatives’ kids don’t deserve to die just because of who their parents are. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/34 "2008-03-25T02:29:07Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] You don’t need to tell me. But Representatives’ kids don’t deserve to die just because of who their parents are. [/QUOTE] Agreed, send the warmongering SOBs to the frontline, threaten them with that and see how their livers bleach to white in a split second. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/35 "2008-03-25T03:05:11Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] You know, even Bush hasn’t directly advocated killing kids just to make a political point. [/QUOTE] I think it’s a great idea. If it’s worth sending Mrs. Plant’s only son to war, it’s worth sending Senator Bumpers child. He was a bastard (metaphorically speaking) when I dealt with him as a library patron. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rhubarb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/36 "2008-03-25T03:14:20Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] You don’t need to tell me. But Representatives’ kids don’t deserve to die just because of who their parents are. [/QUOTE] No, they really don’t. OTOH, “their parents” are asking many others to make sacrifices that they themselves would not, and would not ask of their own children. Today I heard a portion of a speech by Bush stating that he would do whatever possible to ensure that the sacrifices made by 4000 (formerly living) Americans would not be in vain. That history would show that their sacrifice was in a noble cause to support a fledgling democracy and bring peace to the Middle East. This gave me two thoughts - 1.) He’s perfectly willing to keep sending warm bodies over there to replace the cold ones coming back. He doesn’t care how many Americans and Iraqis have to die, just so long as he can get something in place in Iraq that isn’t worse than Saddam Hussein (which, IMO, is not currently the case) to save his wretched legacy. And 2.) He might not be so quick to wave the “worthwhile sacrifice” flag around if HIS children were the ones coming home in body bags, HIS hometown was being occupied by a foreign force, HIS legs were blown off by an IED, etc. It’s easy for him to talk about the sacrifices others are making to support his war when his major sacrifice is getting writer’s cramp from vetoing bills calling for an end to it. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/37 "2008-03-25T03:19:07Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] In most cases, the person explaining the contract was the recruiter, and you don’t get to be a good recruiter without knowing what to say, and what _not_ to say, to an impressionable teenager with no legal experience. [/QUOTE] :dubious: I ask this strictly for clarification, because I really don’t know the answer to this, but how many National Guard members are teenagers? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/38 "2008-03-25T03:21:07Z")
[QUOTE=Rhubarb] No, they really don’t. OTOH, “their parents” are asking many others to make sacrifices that they themselves would not, and would not ask of their own children. [/QUOTE] Yeah, the only problem with it is the basic inhumanity of forcing people into military service as a kind of hostage situation to try to make their parents behave. I’m against using one form of inhumanity to counter another. ---
**Author:** ![Rhubarb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/39 "2008-03-25T03:28:09Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Yeah, the only problem with it is the basic inhumanity of forcing people into military service as a kind of hostage situation to try to make their parents behave. I’m against using one form of inhumanity to counter another. [/QUOTE] I agree. Sadly, the humane alternatives have been annoyingly ineffective to date. ETA: The point I was trying to make was whether GWB would still think the sacrifice was worthwhile if he and his loved ones were the ones being sacrificed. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/40 "2008-03-25T04:57:23Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach] :dubious: I ask this strictly for clarification, because I really don’t know the answer to this, but how many National Guard members are teenagers? [/QUOTE] When they enlist? Good question. I’m guessing it’s a pretty substantial percentage. Love to see some hard numbers, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573.md?page=3)