# Cheney Re:4000 dead "They volunteered" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 24, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573 "2008-03-24T19:03:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/41 "2008-03-25T04:59:11Z")
[QUOTE=Rhubarb] Today I heard a portion of a speech by Bush stating that he would do whatever possible to ensure that the sacrifices made by 4000 (formerly living) Americans would not be in vain. [/QUOTE] {Waves hand} Ooh! Ooh! Sunk Cost Fallacy! ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/42 "2008-03-25T05:21:14Z")
Eh, I still love his response to Martha Raddatz when she informed him that 2/3 of the U.S. no longer believes the war is accomplishing anything. Cheney (exact quote): [spoiler]So? . [/spoiler] Video [here](http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/80244/). It’s kind of reassuring that at least that senior members of the Halliburton Administration aren’t even pretending to give a shit in their final year. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/43 "2008-03-25T06:02:39Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] They’re both sociopaths. This is news? [/QUOTE] Bush and Cheney - Scum and Scummer. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/44 "2008-03-25T06:08:48Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] I don’t really see the outrage. He’s right, as far as I know - all the US soldiers are volunteers. They did volunteer for the army and to put themselves in harm’s way. Are you so outraged because you don’t feel the continued US presence in Iraq is justified? [/QUOTE] I’d expect that some of them, especially after 9/11 and before the invasion, thought that the government would put them in harms way for something important - not for Bush and the neocon’s petulance. I’m sure Cheney’s saying you volunteered and died - tough luck - will do a lot to help recruiting. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/45 "2008-03-25T12:02:44Z")
I think OP’s “recreation outrage” is probably due to the fact that many of those who volunteered did so before 2001 when a futile, unwieldy and endless invasion and occupation weren’t apparent goals of the administration. Recruiters don’t say, “You know, there’s talk of a war in Iraq. Wanna go?” About last night’s Frontline show, “Bush’s War”: [QUOTE=Reuters] In dozens of interviews and with meticulous fact-gathering, “Frontline” makes a convincing case for two important aspects of the war. First, it was primarily orchestrated by Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Bush was only “the decider” insofar as he signed off on their plans, often paying no heed to Secretary of State Colin Powell and others. Second, practically every plan, idea, assumption and strategy advanced by Cheney and Rumsfeld was incorrect, once Saddam Hussein’s regime was toppled. The level of incompetence uncovered by “Frontline” is stunning. [/QUOTE] In the beginning, according to the producer, Michael Kirk, Bush didn’t give much thought to the operation, let alone feel burdened by it. I doubt feels burdened today. ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/46 "2008-03-25T13:11:52Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] I’d expect that some of them, especially after 9/11 and before the invasion, thought that the government would put them in harms way for something important - not for Bush and the neocon’s petulance. I’m sure Cheney’s saying you volunteered and died - tough luck - will do a lot to help recruiting. [/QUOTE] That is exactly my problem with what he said. It parses to me like those people aren’t human to him. That they were toys for him to do with to meet whatever idea of world order he invisioned. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/47 "2008-03-25T13:17:28Z")
All the more reasons for the increasing popularity of my proposal to divide the US military into defense force that is by law, purely defensive. If Bush or his ilk want to go aggressing, then they’d have to use a seperate ‘offense force’, and any attempt to enlist the defensive forces would be an illegal order. Those serving in the ‘defense forces’ would be obliged to refuse. All your recruitment and honor worries over with the stroke of a pen. Brilliant, brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/48 "2008-03-25T13:28:46Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] All the more reasons for the increasing popularity of my proposal to divide the US military into defense force that is by law, purely defensive. If Bush or his ilk want to go aggressing, then they’d have to use a seperate ‘offense force’, and any attempt to enlist the defensive forces would be an illegal order. Those serving in the ‘defense forces’ would be obliged to refuse. All your recruitment and honor worries over with the stroke of a pen. Brilliant, brilliant. [/QUOTE] You jest, of course. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/49 "2008-03-25T13:31:23Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] All the more reasons for the increasing popularity of my proposal to divide the US military into defense force that is by law, purely defensive. If Bush or his ilk want to go aggressing, then they’d have to use a seperate ‘offense force’, and any attempt to enlist the defensive forces would be an illegal order. Those serving in the ‘defense forces’ would be obliged to refuse. [/QUOTE] Hey, that is quite a novel (and brilliant) idea if I might say. Like, seriously friggin’ commonsensically smart. 🆒 Betcha they don’t buy it though. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/50 "2008-03-25T13:32:26Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] All the more reasons for the increasing popularity of my proposal to divide the US military into defense force that is by law, purely defensive. If Bush or his ilk want to go aggressing, then they’d have to use a seperate ‘offense force’, and any attempt to enlist the defensive forces would be an illegal order. Those serving in the ‘defense forces’ would be obliged to refuse. All your recruitment and honor worries over with the stroke of a pen. Brilliant, brilliant. [/QUOTE] At which point the Prez sez, “These troops are being deployed to defend our interests abroad, and D_E_M_O_C_R_A_C_Y itself!” If he doesn’t just use “the stroke of a pen” yet again to add a little signing statement that says the law doesn’t pertain to him. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/51 "2008-03-25T14:16:43Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] At which point the Prez sez, “These troops are being deployed to defend our interests abroad, and D_E_M_O_C_R_A_C_Y itself!” If he doesn’t just use “the stroke of a pen” yet again to add a little signing statement that says the law doesn’t pertain to him. [/QUOTE] Or else he could submit an Authorization for the Use of Military Force to Congress, and see if it passed. Then the Usual Suspects could shut the fuck up about how illegal it all was. OK, I was kidding about the last part. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/52 "2008-03-25T15:00:46Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I’m against using one form of inhumanity to counter another. [/QUOTE] You seem to be laboring under the misconception that Cheney is a human being. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/53 "2008-03-25T15:05:08Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Or else he could submit an Authorization for the Use of Military Force to Congress, and see if it passed. Then the Usual Suspects could shut the fuck up about how illegal it all was. OK, I was kidding about the last part. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Sorry, the Incredibly Retarded Nonsequitur of the Month nominations are already closed out. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/54 "2008-03-25T15:06:48Z")
Eh, Shobot’s chugging again. Tech team should be on site shortly to take a look. Don’t worry about it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/55 "2008-03-25T15:08:08Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] …Then the Usual Suspects could shut the fuck up about how illegal it all was… [/QUOTE] Then all we’d have is immoral, futile, catastrophic and breath-takingly stupid. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/56 "2008-03-25T15:42:08Z")
Not that there haven’t been some [regrets.](http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2008/03/24/tomo/) ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/57 "2008-03-25T17:11:16Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] Georgie, are you pondering what I’m pondering? Uh, I think so, Dick. But, me and Greta Van Susteren, I mean, what would the children look like? [/QUOTE] No matter what they look like, they’ll be loved! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/58 "2008-03-25T19:57:27Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] All the more reasons for the increasing popularity of my proposal to divide the US military into defense force that is by law, purely defensive. If Bush or his ilk want to go aggressing, then they’d have to use a seperate ‘offense force’, and any attempt to enlist the defensive forces would be an illegal order. Those serving in the ‘defense forces’ would be obliged to refuse. [/QUOTE] I’m afraid you are overestimating the morality of the Bushies once again. Weren’t you aware that the invasion of Iraq was a purely defensive move against the evil Saddam who was within hours of nuking us and raping your mamma? Who in the last 100 years has started an offensive war? It is all defensive, according to them. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/59 "2008-03-25T20:33:29Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] All the more reasons for the increasing popularity of my proposal to divide the US military into defense force that is by law, purely defensive. If Bush or his ilk want to go aggressing, then they’d have to use a seperate ‘offense force’, and any attempt to enlist the defensive forces would be an illegal order. Those serving in the ‘defense forces’ would be obliged to refuse. [/QUOTE] This is similar to an idea I had back in the 90s when conservatives were going ballistic at the thought of US troops being placed under UN command. Troops could volunteer for units that were earmarked for UN humanitarian interventions (which are bad, whereas invasions to spread democracy=good). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573/60 "2008-03-25T20:34:15Z")
Quite so. If those sneaky Polish bastards hadn’t attacked a German radio station, all of those troops stationed on the border would have been sent home. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-re-4000-dead-they-volunteered/442573.md?page=4)