# Cheney says he alone can decide which of his records go to National Archives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 19, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932 "2008-12-19T17:13:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/1 "2008-12-19T17:13:25Z")
Or, at any rate, his lawyers say that on his behalf. Story [here.](http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics/story/943769.html) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON | Dick Cheney alone has the authority to determine which records, if any, from his tenure will be handed over to the National Archives when he leaves office, his lawyers say. > > That claim is in federal court documents asking that a lawsuit over the records be dismissed. Cheney leaves office Jan. 20, potentially taking with him millions of records that might otherwise become public record. > > “The vice president alone may determine what constitutes vice presidential records or personal records, how his records will be created, maintained, managed and disposed, and are all actions that are committed to his discretion by law,” according to a court filing by Cheney’s office with the U.S. District Court on Dec. 8. Rather a novel (using the word “novel” to mean “brazen”) interpretation of the [Presidential Records Act.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Records_Act) I was afraid that as this Admin drew to a close, Cheney would lighten up and stop acting like such a dick. But he’s not going to let us down! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/2 "2008-12-19T17:25:45Z")
No surprise here. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/3 "2008-12-19T17:29:03Z")
The record of Cheney’s I care about is his future criminal one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/4 "2008-12-19T17:31:46Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The record of Cheney’s I care about is his future criminal one. My guess is he’s thinking of the exact same thing. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/5 "2008-12-19T17:35:32Z")
Spurious executive orders notwithstanding, those records belong to the American public. Cheney can go fuck himself. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/6 "2008-12-19T17:38:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Rather a novel (using the word “novel” to mean “brazen”) interpretation of the [Presidential Records Act.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Records_Act) You could have just used the word “brazen.” ☹ ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/7 "2008-12-19T17:39:48Z")
Bet he’s not going to need much firewood to get through the rest of winter. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/8 "2008-12-19T17:55:18Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Bet he’s not going to need much firewood to get through the rest of winter. Nah, he just burns peasants. ---
**Author:** ![Ocean\_Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8797f3/32.png) [@Ocean\_Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocean_Annie)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/9 "2008-12-19T18:11:20Z")
> [@Enfant Terrible](#): > > Spurious executive orders notwithstanding, those records belong to the American public. > > Cheney can go fuck himself. The problem is that nobody in charge seems to give a shit about the American people, public assets, or the law. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/10 "2008-12-19T18:33:29Z")
He flatly doesn’t even pretend to give a fuck about fairness or the law does he? I’m still reeling over those who supported him when he said the VP was a member of the legislative branch. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/11 "2008-12-19T21:36:16Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > He flatly doesn’t even pretend to give a fuck about fairness or the law does he? I’m still reeling over those who supported him when he said the VP was a member of the legislative branch. No, no, the VP is a member of the legislative **or** executive branch depending on the situation – it’s a matter of quantum uncertainty, like Schrodinger’s Cat. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/12 "2008-12-20T00:51:06Z")
> [@Enfant Terrible](#): > > Spurious executive orders notwithstanding, those records belong to the American public. > > Cheney can go fuck himself. According to federal regulations, as I understand them, it all becomes part of Official Record. So, then he does not get to pick and choose. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/13 "2008-12-20T01:00:00Z")
It’s quite simple really: Memos where Cheney says “Yes I’d love to attend the opening of the Puppy Rescue Society Dinner” are OK to be released. Memos where Cheney says “I know they never had any weapons of mass destruction, but torture them anyway so we look like we’re doing something” are not OK to be released. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/14 "2008-12-20T01:02:55Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > It’s quite simple really: > > Memos where Cheney says “Yes I’d love to attend the opening of the Puppy Rescue Society Dinner” are OK to be released. > > Memos where Cheney says “I know they never had any weapons of mass destruction, but torture them anyway so we look like we’re doing something” are not OK to be released. Why not? Really. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/15 "2008-12-20T02:04:45Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Why not? Really. Why not? I believe that the Presidential Records Act is a wise piece of legislation. It allows the people to examine the thinking (or lack thereof) behind the decisions made by leaders who, purportedly, are acting with powers temporarily loaned to them through the free consent of the governed. What are the benefits of keeping such records secret? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/16 "2008-12-20T02:19:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Cheney leaves office Jan. 20, potentially taking with him millions of records that might otherwise become public record. Millions of records? Conservatives are going to tear him apart. I mean look how upset they were when Sandy Berger stole just five copies of one record. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/17 "2008-12-20T02:26:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Millions of records? Conservatives are going to tear him apart. I mean look how upset they were when Sandy Berger stole just five copies of one record. Yes, of course… **Watches tumbleweed roll across an empty, dusty road** ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/18 "2008-12-20T02:30:25Z")
> [@Enfant Terrible](#): > > I believe that the Presidential Records Act is a wise piece of legislation. It allows the people to examine the thinking (or lack thereof) behind the decisions made by leaders who, purportedly, are acting with powers temporarily loaned to them through the free consent of the governed. > > What are the benefits of keeping such records secret? This is exactly what I’m getting at. It is now part of our history for better or for worse. But, just to be a bit of a smart ass, and toss back the same argument that has been used to support various Patriot Act decisions, “What do they have to hide, if they are completely innocent of ummmmm everything”? Besides, it will pertain to official government business, and is the property of the government and is to be considered official documentation - right down to a margin scribble that says “so and so is a big fat noob”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/19 "2008-12-20T02:39:50Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > This is exactly what I’m getting at. > It is now part of our history for better or for worse. But, just to be a bit of a smart ass, and toss back the same argument that has been used to support various Patriot Act decisions, “What do they have to hide, if they are completely innocent of ummmmm everything”? > Besides, it will pertain to official government business, and is the property of the government and is to be considered official documentation - right down to a margin scribble that says “so and so is a big fat noob”. What is our form of government based on if not the supposition that government at its essence is the property of the people? But to play along a bit: By my lights the Patriot Act was created to empower the government and law enforcement to mine enough data to be able to suss out terrorist plots before they have a chance to hatch. Now, if you want to argue that presidential records are going to be useful in rooting out acts of wanton criminality… well… you’ll get no argument from me. However, I generally don’t expect to admissions of criminal behavior in such records. Your position would seem to suggest that the government has the ability to claim presumption of innocence the same as any citizen, when IMO the purpose of presumption of innocence is to protect the citizen against the government. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932/20 "2008-12-20T03:00:45Z")
> [@Enfant Terrible](#): > > I believe that the Presidential Records Act is a wise piece of legislation. It allows the people to examine the thinking (or lack thereof) behind the decisions made by leaders who, purportedly, are acting with powers temporarily loaned to them through the free consent of the governed. > > What are the benefits of keeping such records secret? [Bush seems to think there are some . . . but does not actually say what they are.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13233) Thing is, under the PRA Cheney’s records only have to be made available to the public after 12 years. What’s he so worried about? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-says-he-alone-can-decide-which-of-his-records-go-to-national-archives/477932.md?page=2)