# Cheney staff behind Plame outing
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 5, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740 "2004-02-05T22:23:55Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/1 "2004-02-05T22:23:55Z")
[This just in:](http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/02/17/National/Cheneys.Staff.Focus.Of.Probe-598606.shtml)
> [@](#):
>
> Federal law-enforcement officials said that they have developed hard evidence of possible criminal misconduct by two employees of Vice President Dick Cheney’s office related to the unlawful exposure of a CIA officer’s identity last year. The investigation, which is continuing, could lead to indictments, a Justice Department official said.
>
> According to these sources, John Hannah and Cheney’s chief of staff, Lewis “Scooter” Libby, were the two Cheney employees. “We believe that Hannah was the major player in this,” one federal law-enforcement officer said. Calls to the vice president’s office were not returned, nor did Hannah and Libby return calls.
>
> The strategy of the FBI is to make clear to Hannah “that he faces a real possibility of doing jail time” as a way to pressure him to name superiors, one federal law-enforcement official said.
I guess this will come as no surprise to some people.
Swift guilty pleas/firings/ resignations or will the Bush team circle the wagons? Haven’t they tried that already?
Think anybody will care?
Will Libby and Hannah fall on their swords or will they sing?
My money’s on the swords but you never know…
sorry, wasn’t sure which forum to put this in
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/2 "2004-02-05T22:50:45Z")
No! (gasp!) Chicanery and political skullduggery in the Vice President’s office! I’m shocked! Shocked! I have little doubt that swift justice will be meted out to the miscreants, who will make full confession and admit that the entire blame is thiers, it was all thier idea. Indeed, they went to great lengths to ensure that thier Boss knew nothing about it, as he would have been swift to put paid to such!
Indeed, they will fall upon their swords, and right crisply. But perhaps some compassion may be called for, some rueful understanding of thier patriotic enthusiasm. A few lectures from Chuck Colson, and a stern talking to. A firm reprimand placed in their Permanent Record, and banishment to the private sector, or perhaps some minor sinecure in some understanding and forgiving corporate office.
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### Author:  [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/3 "2004-02-05T23:01:27Z")
I heard that it was no big secret that she was a CIA agent. Like so many other events that have transpired in Washington, it isn’t so much the act but the cover-up that makes it so bad. I agree that Hannah and Libby will be sacrificed for the “greater cause”.
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### Author:  [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2004, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/4 "2004-02-05T23:59:46Z")
> [@kniz](#):
>
> I heard that it was no big secret that she was a CIA agent.
Then why would Justice and the FBI go to all this trouble if she was “just an analyst” or if her CIA job was common knowledge? Certainly they evaluated how big a secret it was before embarking on this venture.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/5 "2004-02-06T00:41:52Z")
IIRC, the relevant law does not distinguish between agents who are sort-of-kinda-secret and deep cover moles serving as Osama chauffuer. How a law might go about making such a distinction eludes me. It hardly matters, this kind of retribution towards a political opponent who’s crime is telling the truth just plain bites, and must not be tolerated.
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/6 "2004-02-06T01:35:27Z")
Actually, if you want something more damning…
Marketplace (on NPR) tonight reported that the FBI is investigating Halliburton again. This time for making $180,000,000 in bribes to obtain a lucrative Nigerian (HA!) gas contract (I think…I’m working from memory here).
This would have occured while Cheny was CEO…and is a violation of US law.
The vultures aren’t circling…but there are some people who wouldn’t mind pointing them in the right direction.
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/7 "2004-02-06T01:41:56Z")
Throwing a punch like that without back up gives me hives.
[So I dug this up from The Guardian.](http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3657535,00.html)
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/8 "2004-02-06T01:41:58Z")
Surely this can’t be the same Libby and Hannah that tried to get Clinton to invade Iraq [back in 98:](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0206.marshall.html)
> [@](#):
>
> The hawks began pressing the case for overthrowing Saddam in 1998 with a letter to the Clinton administration drafted by Perle and signed by 40 neocon luminaries. Many of the signatories became advisers to then-Gov. George W. Bush. Some won top jobs in the new administration. Hawks include, at the Pentagon, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, William Luti, and Harold Rhode; at the Office of the Vice President, **Lewis “Scooter” Libby and John Hannah** ; at the State Department, David Wurmser; and at the National Security Council, former Gen. Wayne Downing.
What a tumble the neocon’s high ethical and moral standards have taken if the OP’s link turns out to be accurate.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/9 "2004-02-06T01:46:19Z")
Link, ALWAYS put in the link dammit!
Quote from [Joshua Micah Marshall](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0206.marshall.html)
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### Author:  [@Pepsi\_Classic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pepsi_Classic)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/10 "2004-02-06T01:50:43Z")
Is Insight a creditable source?
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/11 "2004-02-06T02:14:05Z")
> [@Pepsi Classic](#):
>
> Is Insight a creditable source?
Well, [IOTN’s “about us” page](http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=87139) has this to say:
> [@](#):
>
> Insight on the News is a national biweekly newsmagazine published in Washington by the Washington Times Corp. As Newsweek is the sister publication of the Washington Post, Insight is the sister publication of the Washington Times.
And they get exclusive interviews with such luminaries as Ann Coulter, so it’s probably safe to say that Insight is not a left wing scandal sheet.
If the story holds up it’ll be all over the mainstream press in a few days.
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### Author:  [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/12 "2004-02-06T02:29:30Z")
They are getting Karl Rove off the hook then ?
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/13 "2004-02-06T02:42:51Z")
It looks that way, but after Cheney’s arrest Bush will need to call on Dan Quayle as a last minute running mate. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Pepsi\_Classic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pepsi_Classic)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/14 "2004-02-06T02:51:44Z")
Let’s say the story is true. Is there any way that Cheney’s CoS would do this without Cheney? Would Cheney do this without Bush?
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### Author:  [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/15 "2004-02-06T03:12:26Z")
> [@Pepsi Classic](#):
>
> Let’s say the story is true. Is there any way that Cheney’s CoS would do this without Cheney? Would Cheney do this without Bush?
My guesses would be not likely, and absolutely, respectively.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/16 "2004-02-06T04:11:27Z")
Hannah would not have had access to Plame’s undercover status on his own. The identities of UC operatives are highly protected. Hannah had to have gotten the info from Cheney.
Let’s hope Cheney burns for this.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/17 "2004-02-06T04:37:05Z")
Libby’s reportedly been under suspicion since October: [CIA leak suspicion centers on Lewis Libby, Cheney’s chief of staff](http://www.fairandbalanced.us/docs/StoryID892.htm) (10/03/03), so the Insight article is notable mostly for telling us that the FBI is now ready to play hardball.
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### Author:  [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/18 "2004-02-06T04:38:51Z")
Any bets that Tom Ridge will recieve the V-Pres nomination as a result of this?
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/19 "2004-02-06T04:41:43Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#):
>
> They are getting Karl Rove off the hook then ?
The first rule of Karl Rove is there is no Karl Rove!
_waves hand_ You do not need to see his memos. This is not the puppetmaster you’re looking for.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-staff-behind-plame-outing/227740/20 "2004-02-06T04:44:37Z")
Only gotta string this along 9 more months, if Cheney wants to keep the office (and it’s his call, not George’s, of course). Or, he has known health problems that would make a fine public pretext for deciding against running again, if the sword-falling by grown men with names like “Scooter” doesn’t work. Look for the Bureau to give the _Vice-President of the United States_ an honorable-looking way out if his alternative is a frog-march.
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