# Cheney still has money ties to Halliburton **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 26, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021 "2003-09-26T18:15:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/1 "2003-09-26T18:15:01Z")
Oops, another myth drops away from the continuing black eye of contracting for Iraq for the Bush Adminstration: > [@](#): > > A Congressional Research Service report released yesterday concluded that federal ethics laws treat Vice President Cheney’s annual deferred compensation checks and unexercised stock options as continuing financial interests in the Halliburton Co. > > Democrats have aggressively challenged Cheney’s claim that he has no financial ties to Halliburton, despite those arrangements. > > The Houston-based energy conglomerate has been awarded more than $2 billion in contracts for rebuilding Iraq, including one worth $1.22 billion that was awarded on a noncompetitive basis. And as noted before, Cheney not endearing himself to Bush, on top of all the Halliburton mess, he was one of the hype masters behind the WMD claims disaster, not to mention: > [@](#): > > The continuing controversy over Cheney’s statement puts him in the position of drawing criticism to the White House. In the past, White House officials have considered him a reassuring figure for viewers and voters. > > Bush issued what amounted to a correction of another statement Cheney made on “Meet the Press.” When asked about the possibility of a connection between former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein and the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Cheney said, “We don’t know.” Three days later, Bush said in response to a question that the government has no evidence of such a link. Bush supports cannot be happy that they are saddled with such a liability at V.P. given the latest poll numbers. But alas, I think Bush is stuck with Cheney, warts and all, as dropping him would be a tacit admission of failure. The one chance is if they could convince Cheney to resign for “health” reasons. But given Cheney’s personality, I doubt he would. I had a good chuckle at Fark’s snippet on the link: > [@](#): > > Congress finds Cheney is still getting money from Halliburton. Still unclear who delivers his arrogance and intestinal bloat [http://www.fark.com/](http://www.fark.com/) ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/2 "2003-09-26T18:23:24Z")
Crap. Linkety link: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2233-2003Sep25.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2233-2003Sep25.html) Sorry folks. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![bri1600bv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@bri1600bv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bri1600bv)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/3 "2003-09-26T19:43:43Z")
I don’t think that’s quite right. His deferred compensation is fixed, meaning it won’t change with Halliburton’s value. So he is like an unsecured creditor. But in the article it said he had purchased an insurance contract in exchange for the deferred compensation, thus making it completely immune to Halliburton’s success or failure. In orther words, if Halliburton goes belly up, his compensation payments are not affected. He said he would donate the after tax proceeds of the stock options to charity. If he does, then it would make his personal fortunes completely immune to Halliburton the company and its stock price. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/4 "2003-09-26T20:02:45Z")
**Emily Latella** : What’s all this talk about Cheny and Iraq? I mean, how can his monetary investments in a luggage company affect some contract they’re awarding for some foreign oil fields? **Jane Curtain** : Uh, Emily, that’s Halliburton _KBR and Energy Services Group_, one of the largest petroleum extraction equipment contractors in the entire world, currently awarded a non-competitive bid worth over _one billion_ dollars for the reconstruction of Iraq’s oil fields by Cheny’s superior, Boss Shrub. **Emily Latella** : _Nevermiiiind_. BITCH! ---
**Author:** ![quiltguy154](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ad7895/32.png) [@quiltguy154](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quiltguy154)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/5 "2003-09-26T22:43:05Z")
“I am shocked, shocked that this is going on here.” ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/6 "2003-09-26T23:58:54Z")
Ever ahead of my time, I quoted this little factoid in a thread some days ago and was promptly pounced on by a resident defender of the Flying Monkey Club as being completely out of my mind to think that there is anything inappropriate in any of this. The list of egregious acts by the members of this administration have got to be getting more and more difficult to defend, even for staunch Bushies. I just read today where the number of persons living in poverty has gone up for the second year in a row (NY Times article: a link is unreachable unless you are a subscriber, sorry). What a fuckin’ surprise… ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/7 "2003-09-27T00:13:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chefguy \* > **Ever ahead of my time, I quoted this little factoid in a thread some days ago and was promptly pounced on by a resident defender of the Flying Monkey Club as being completely out of my mind to think that there is anything inappropriate in any of this.** Do you then propose that no person who receives a pension be eligible for elective office? Should the high offices of the land be reserved exclusively for lawyers and owners of capital? Or is owning capital also disqualifying? > [@](#): > > \*\*I just read today where the number of persons living in poverty has gone up for the second year in a row (NY Times article: a link is unreachable unless you are a subscriber, sorry). What a fuckin’ surprise… \*\* Or you know how to find it in [Google News](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/26/politics/26CND-CENS.html?ex=1065240000&en=4c0214d74d07e81e&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE). Wait, you mean that poverty increases during and in the aftermath of recessions? Alert the media! ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/8 "2003-09-27T00:54:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Should the high offices of the land be reserved exclusively for lawyers and owners of capital? Bar Card-- check. Capital-- Check. So yes, I do- by the way which one do I get? I hope its one of the offices that gets your signature on currency- that would make taking the bar so worth it. * * * Or maybe those in office shouldn’t look to enrich their friends and collegues in companies they still hold financial stakes in with back door Billion-dollar no-bid contracts. If Clinton had done something like this Fox News Channel and Rush Limbaugh would be holding round the clock coverage. Given the closed door meetings with heavy energy company donors, that Cheney desperately tried to hide, and still zealously works to withold any documentation on (leading to an unprecented suit by the GAO)- Cheney has proven to be tied at the hip to Halliburton and the various big donors from the Fortune 500 energy companies. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/9 "2003-09-27T01:04:49Z")
Yeah, what a crack up. Hilary Clinton scores a few thousand in the cattle market and she’s the biggest, most underhanded, cheatingest scalliwag since Michael Milken… But Cheney’s doings start to look a little dubious to the tune of millions of dollars and it’s … “Oh it’s all on the up and up … he’s an honest man … there is no wrong doing … nothing to see here … move along.” ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/10 "2003-09-27T01:22:28Z")
It seems like most people have forgotten an old political maxim. I recall that a good politician is not only supposed to avoid conflicts of interest, but also is obliged to avoid even _the appearance_ of a conflict of interest. Cheny has blown this to smithereens. His back room dealings with Enron have cast his role in the most injurious light possible. This guy is a dead and rotting albatross around Shrub’s neck, which is precisely where he belongs. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/11 "2003-09-27T03:47:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\* > > * * * > > Or maybe those in office shouldn’t look to enrich their friends and collegues in companies they still hold financial stakes in with back door Billion-dollar no-bid contracts. If Clinton had done something like this Fox News Channel and Rush Limbaugh would be holding round the clock coverage. > > \*\* Umm. I don’t believe Bill Clinton ever held a job in the private sector, or, as I like to refer to it, the Real World, so what you’re suggesting is pretty much impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/12 "2003-09-27T03:53:51Z")
If one is going to claim that their is something wrong with Cheney’s retirement compensation, or the fact that he had dealings with Enron you’re going to have to tell us what exactly they are. The simple fact that Cheney has retirement benefits is not an actual indictment. Guilt by association doesn’t fly. Enron having been a Fortune 50 company at one time, in the same sector as Halliburton, it would be very surprising if Cheney did not have dealings with them. Shit. I had dealings with Enron. I still own stock. So again, let us be specific. What exactly is wrong with Cheney’s retirement or Enron dealings? ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/13 "2003-09-27T04:47:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > If one is going to claim that their is something wrong with Cheney’s retirement compensation, or the fact that he had dealings with Enron you’re going to have to tell us what exactly they are. This is a bit difficult when he will not disclose the content of discussions with them. That he would refuse to do so becomes even more conspicuous when you consider that Enron loaned Shrub their _ **corporate jet** _ during his presidential campaign. All of this smacks of cronyism to such a degree that a clean breast is pretty much mandatory. Instead, the public has been treated to legal obfuscation rivaled only by the Nixon era. Not much of a recommendation in my book. Had Enron’s chief officers _not_ intentionally misreported their company’s performance, they might _never_ have been able to afford to loan such an unaffordable asset as a private jet. There is no after-the-fact connection sought by this inference. Merely, that it remains highly conspicuous that so many other CEOs are in the dock while Lay, Skilling and others are still free men. > [@](#): > > The simple fact that Cheney has retirement benefits is not an actual indictment. Guilt by association doesn’t fly. It’s not merely guilt by association. Cheny stands to profit directly from further success of Halliburton. To be even a remote part of their being awarded a **no bid billion dollar contract** fairly shrieks, “conflict of interest” in glowing neon letters. > [@](#): > > Enron having been a Fortune 50 company at one time, in the same sector as Halliburton, it would be very surprising if Cheney did not have dealings with them. The whole point of this is, HE DID, and a lot of us see this as a massive conflict of interest. I do not see what needs to be so secret about the discussions between Cheny and these energy people. These are not secrets of state. Affairs of state, yes; Secrets, no. To withhold this information inasmuch proclaims the very _need_ to be suspect. Anyone who is not has on blinkers the size of Sir Elton John’s spectacles. ---
**Author:** ![MmmDonut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@MmmDonut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MmmDonut)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/14 "2003-09-27T13:06:17Z")
I think we should all just leave Mr. Cheney alone and go think some Happy Thoughts! That’s what I like to do in times like this… no point in letting such trivialities get you down… ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/15 "2003-09-27T13:08:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\*This is a bit difficult when he will not disclose the content of discussions with them. \*\* Why should he? [quote[That he would refuse to do so becomes even more conspicuous when you consider that Enron loaned Shrub their _ **corporate jet** _ during his presidential campaign.[/quote] What does the one say about the other, or is this just an excuse to segue into the jet thing? [quote[All of this smacks of cronyism to such a degree that a clean breast is pretty much mandatory. Instead, the public has been treated to legal obfuscation rivaled only by the Nixon era. Not much of a recommendation in my book.[/quote] I don’t care what it smacks of. What happened that was wrong? What did Cheney do that he shouldn’t have? Calling it “legal obfuscation” whatever that it means, and invoking Nixon doesn’t make it true. I truly hate these innuendo based attacks. If you have an actual issue, display it. Failing that all we have is a disingenuous little whine. > [@](#): > > Had Enron’s chief officers _not_ intentionally misreported their company’s performance, they might _never_ have been able to afford to loan such an unaffordable asset as a private jet. There is no after-the-fact connection sought by this inference. Allright, here’'s something specific. I.E. Cronyism brought about the dishonesty that brought down Enron. This simply doesn’t hold water. You simply don’t understand the scale of Enron which, IIRC got as high as the ninth largest US Company. Enron didn’t need to lie to produce a Corporate Jet anymore than you’d need to rob banks to give away a peanut butter sandwich. It’s a drop in the bucket, and the two have nothing to do with each other by inference. If you posit a connection you’ll need to find a direct one. [quoteMerely, that it remains highly conspicuous that so many other CEOs are in the dock while Lay, Skilling and others are still free men.It’s not merely guilt by association.[/quote] No, it’s just innuendo. > [@](#): > > Cheny stands to profit directly from further success of Halliburton. To be even a remote part of their being awarded a **no bid billion dollar contract** fairly shrieks, “conflict of interest” in glowing neon letters. The first part is false. As has already been explained to you, Cheney does not stand to profit. He has taken public steps in accordance with law and custom to divorce himself from the possibility of profiting directly from the success of his former company. As for the no bid thing, the government does this a lot. They did this with Bootsncoots after the gulf war, because that company was by far the major player in oil field disaster recovery. They were really the only choice. Halliburton is the major player in oil services infrastructure. Who else should they have chosen for this? [quote[The whole point of this is, HE DID, and a lot of us see this as a massive conflict of interest.[/quote] Once again, how **you** see it isn’t an argument. How you see it, isn’t what it is. You need to demonstrate your viewpoint is correct. Just having a vewpoint isn’t an argument. > [@](#): > > \*\*I do not see what needs to be so secret about the discussions between Cheny and these energy people. These are not secrets of state. Affairs of state, yes; Secrets, no. To withhold this information inasmuch proclaims the very _need_ to be suspect. Anyone who is not has on blinkers the size of Sir Elton John’s spectacles. \*\* What secret are you referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/16 "2003-09-27T13:26:23Z")
That’s some seriously stuffed up coding, there **Scylla**. There’s only one bit that I’ll bother with: > [@](#): > > **Halliburton is the major player in oil services infrastructure. Who else should they have chosen for this?** The problem isn’t in the ultimate choice, it’s in the method of choosing. There was no tender, no evaluation of bids, nothing. There was no opportunity to choose _anyone_ else. Competition good. Cronyism bad. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hicks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/17 "2003-09-27T14:04:16Z")
> [@](#): > > I truly hate these innuendo based attacks. Like the Iraq invasion? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/18 "2003-09-27T14:08:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\*I recall that a good politician is not only supposed to avoid conflicts of interest, but also is obliged to avoid even _the appearance_ of a conflict of interest. \*\* “Caesar’s wife must be above suspicion.” ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/19 "2003-09-27T14:41:25Z")
Well now, it’s really hard to base these attacks on facts when Cheney **will not divulge them.** But these _are_ the facts as we know them: Cheney has a continuing financial interest in Halliburton. (Can someone explain to me how a person can own unexercised stock options in a company and _not_ have an interest in the future of that company?) Cheney had White House Task Force on Energy discussions _while Vice President of the United States_ but won’t tell the GOA what it was they discussed (won’t even say who was in on the discussions) because _it’s not their buisness_! Halliburton gets a no-bid billion dollar contract to rebuild Iraq. Still, according to the **Scylla** , any questioning of these facts are “innuendo based attacks”. > [@](#): > > What secret are you referring to? How about who Cheney discussed national policy with, what it was they discussed and how these discussions influenced our national energy policy. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021/20 "2003-09-27T14:48:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > Umm. I don’t believe Bill Clinton ever held a job in the private sector, or, as I like to refer to it, the Real World, so what you’re suggesting is pretty much impossible. > [@](#): > > I truly hate these innuendo based attacks. If you have an actual issue, display it. Failing that all we have is a disingenuous little whine. For some reason, I don’t believe it’s the innuendo with which you have a problem. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cheney-still-has-money-ties-to-halliburton/204021.md?page=2)