# chess and castleing - WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 19, 2001, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-and-castleing-wtf/62594 "2001-04-19T21:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DRY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@DRY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DRY)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2001, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-and-castleing-wtf/62594/21 "2001-04-22T23:19:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by barbitu8 \* > **I don’t see where in the rules 0-0 is prohibited if the K-side R is under attack. I know that’s not true. Say, for instance, there is an open h-file (KR file), and your R is on it and it is attacked by an opposing R. You are allowed to castle (so long as the K, of course, does not move thru check or was not in check). If you believe otherwise, please explain what rule leads you to believe that, but I warn you, that’s not the case.** As I understand it, this is correct. A king side rook can also be under attack, yet castling is otherwise legal (assuming all other conditions are met). ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-and-castleing-wtf/62594/22 "2001-04-23T01:07:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > \*\*Quoth **pulykamell** : “sure ya can [mate while castling]. i doubt the situation would ever present itself, but there’s nothing in the rules against it.” > > It’s even less likely, but if your opponent’s King is on your first rank, on the opposite side of your King as your Rook, then castling gets your King out of the way, conceivably setting up a mate. \*\* Yeah, but you can just move your K and accomplish the same thing. I saw a problem once with White to move and win in one move. The move was 0-0-0. When the move was done, the WK attacked a BR, and the WR gave check, thus winning the BR. That may have been an actual game. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-and-castleing-wtf/62594/23 "2001-04-23T01:11:52Z")
Bartitu8: You’re correct about that: either rook could be under attack, the key is that the King can neither move into Check nor cross over an attacked square. Thanks for catching that flub. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-and-castleing-wtf/62594/24 "2001-04-23T01:16:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by barbitu8 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > > \*\*Quoth **pulykamell** : “sure ya can [mate while castling]. i doubt the situation would ever present itself, but there’s nothing in the rules against it.” > > > > It’s even less likely, but if your opponent’s King is on your first rank, on the opposite side of your King as your Rook, then castling gets your King out of the way, conceivably setting up a mate. \*\* > > Yeah, but you can just move your K and accomplish the same thing.\*\* No, no, no. I already explained above how castling could be necessary to mate in 1. I quote: > [@](#): > > Imagine it thus: Black’s King is at QR8 (a1). White has a rook on KR2 (h2), a rook on KR1 (h1) and his king on K1 (e1). White’s only move to mate in 1 is to castle. It goes without saying of course, that it is fairly unlikely that Black’s K will be on White’s first rank but that white’s K and KR will not have moved, but it’s entirely plausible, and I’m sure it’s happened somewhere, sometime. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-and-castleing-wtf/62594/25 "2001-04-23T01:50:09Z")
You’re absolutely right, **VarlosZ**. You said it before I did, and better. I wonder how I missed your post. While we’re at it, here’s another setup, a bit more plausible I think, in which White’s only mating move is Kingside Castle. (Uppercase White, lowercase Black) (Bottom four ranks shown only): ```auto · · · Q · · · · · · · · · k · · · · · · · · · P · · N · K · · R ``` ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-and-castleing-wtf/62594/26 "2001-04-23T07:20:28Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1274131#post1274131](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1274131#post1274131) Come on over. **Achernar,** how do you did you do diagram the board like that? It would be a great help to the thread. . . ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-and-castleing-wtf/62594/27 "2001-04-23T07:21:51Z")
> [@](#): > > . . . how do you did you do diagram the board like that? I’m an idiot, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-and-castleing-wtf/62594/28 "2001-04-24T22:45:18Z")
Guess I forgot to specify. Rank newbie - _barely_ know the pieces and how the move. Don’t know the notation. “multiple petulant piece removal”? “losers arabesque”? Thanks, pulykamell. I guess it’s just a matter of two guys deciding to play it a different way, then showing all their friends, and then it spreading. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-and-castleing-wtf/62594.md?page=1)