# Chess pieces **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 21, 1999, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530 "1999-09-21T02:16:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 1999, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/1 "1999-09-21T02:16:00Z")
I would like to know why chess pieces have such silly names. King, queen, bishop, knight, and pawn I can deal with. But rook? Isn’t that a kind of bird? Furthermore, in French the word for “bishop” is not _l’évêque_ but _le fou_ (the crazy man). The Spanish word is _el alfil_ which doesn’t seem to mean anything else. And the Esperanto word for bishop is _la kuriero_ (the courier!) Didn’t the bishop (or was it the rook) start off as an elephant or something? Why the variety of names? ---
**Author:** ![pluto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f08c70/32.png) [@pluto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pluto)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 1999, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/2 "1999-09-21T04:00:00Z")
If you want more information than you can possibly use, try this: [http://homepage.tinet.ie/~rayreid/Rook.htm](http://homepage.tinet.ie/~rayreid/Rook.htm) It’s a long and wandering dictionary entry (or list of dictionary entries) for the rook. Somewhere in all of that it says that ‘rook’ is a colloquial term for the governor of a castle. Makes sense in the royal/noble/church/peasant scheme of the chess board. My Webster’s says the word is ultimately Persian, but offers no info on its original meaning. Wasn’t chess original a Persian invention? ## Hope this helps a little, anyway. “non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem” – William of Ockham ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 1999, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/3 "1999-09-21T04:49:00Z")
a bit off topic, but I’ve read somewhere that “checkmate” is ultimately derived from “shah mat” - the king (“shah”) is dead - in Persian?? ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 1999, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/4 "1999-09-21T05:13:00Z")
Found some relevant info. EB on the variations among the bishop and the rook: > [@](#): > > The bishop was known by different names–“fool” in French, “elephant” in Russian, for example–and was not universally recognized by a distinctive mitre until the 19th century. > > Depiction of the rook also varied considerably. In Russia it was usually represented as a sailing ship until the 20th century. Elsewhere it was a warrior in a chariot or a castle turret. MW on the word rook: Etymology: Middle English _rok_, from Middle French _roc_, from Arabic _rukhkh_, from Persian _rukh_ ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 1999, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/5 "1999-09-21T14:57:00Z")
Alphagene and jti are correct in the likely derivations from the Persian (Iranian) of checkmate and rook. If you’re interested, I recommend ‘A History of Chess’ by Murray, Oxford University Press (1913), reprinted Benjamin Press. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 1999, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/6 "1999-09-21T15:07:00Z")
Persian invention?! Well, yes; that is, if you think India is Persia. But it’s not and chess began, by most reputable accounts in India. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 1999, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/7 "1999-09-22T05:54:00Z")
The game was invented in India, but came to Europe by way of Persia, and some Persian terminology survived. (I suspect that, just as with “Arabic” numerals, and “[E]Gypsies”, Europe was deceived as to ultimate Indian origins.) * * * John W. Kennedy “Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.” – Charles Williams ---
**Author:** ![AuraSeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@AuraSeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuraSeer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 1999, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/8 "1999-09-21T18:01:00Z")
o/~ What’s gonna happen to Chess-Piece Face? o/~ ---
**Author:** ![AuraSeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@AuraSeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuraSeer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 1999, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/9 "1999-09-21T18:02:00Z")
Hmm, my musical notes came out very ugly. Ah well… ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 1999, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/10 "1999-09-21T18:57:00Z")
It’s not correct to say definitely that chess was invented in India. Murray (see my earlier thread) and other historians conclude that chess probably came from India or Persia. But there isn’t any conclusive evidence, just stuff like pieces or boards that were probably used for ‘chess’ - or a similar game. Early versions of chess had the queen and bishop much less powerful (leaving the rook as the big guy). The Italians (or the Spanish?!) came up with the modern moves around 1600. Apparently Shah Jehan (built the Taj Mahal) used 32 virgins as living chess pieces. And some people think chess is boring… ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 1999, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/11 "1999-09-21T19:06:00Z")
The Rabid Child is still tuning in, Chess Piece Face’s patience must be wearing thin… ---
**Author:** ![Geenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Geenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geenius)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 1999, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/12 "1999-09-21T20:50:00Z")
The Spanish _alfil_ comes from the Arabic name for the piece, _al-fil_, which I believe means “the elephant.” in ur-chess, known as _chaturanga_ and later _shatranj_, the diagonally moving piece is known as the elephant; it still goes by this designation in Chinese chess (which is actually named for this piece: _xiang qi_, “elephant game”). In Germany, BTW, the piece is called _der Laufer_, “the messenger.” The rook, from Arabic _ar-rukh_ (“the chariot”), was turned into a castle tower by Europeans who misinterpreted the Arabic pieces (the Arabs couldn’t use figurines depicting people because of the Muslim prohibition of idolatry, so they gave us the abstract figures we use today). Also, it is pretty much accepted that _chaturanga_ was invented in India (where the pieces and pawns represented divisions of the military: elephants, cavalry, chariots and infantry) and spread both east and west. To the east it passed through China (whence _xiang qi_) and on to Japan (where it became _shogi_, “generals’ game”); to the west it passed through Persia and Byzantium (whence _shatranj_), then into the Arab world, then to Italy. It was in Italy that “modern” chess was created with the empowerment of the queen, formerly a weak vizier. And yes, _shah mat_ is Persian for “the king is dead.” (It also gives the game its Russian name, _shakhmaty_. Had enough yet?) ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 1999, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/13 "1999-09-22T16:16:00Z")
Errr… Not only is my Britannica quite positive about the Indian origin of the game, it says expressly that Murray said so in 1913. I have never, in 40 years or so, seen any serious claim to the contrary, and as far as I know, the theory has been well known and accepted for over 200 years. * * * John W. Kennedy “Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.” – Charles Williams ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/14 "1999-09-23T14:31:00Z")
John W. Kennedy, your research is impeccable - I only meant that we’ve although found some evidence of a boardgame like (or an ancestor of) chess in India, plus some (probably later) material in Persia:- (pedantically) it’s not quite the modern game. Sorry if that sentence was too long! P.S. are you a keen player too? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 1999, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/15 "1999-09-24T14:41:00Z")
Well, if you want the _modern_ game, that’s European. At a minimum, the present-day queen and castling are, and I think the two-square pawn move may also be. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 1999, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/16 "1999-09-24T19:35:00Z")
And yet the differences between the FIDE version of Chess and the Korean version of Chang-gi and the Japanse version of Sho-gi and the Chinese version of Xian-gi all are essentially minor as they’re essentially the same game. I’ll go with JWK on this one, glee, as he obviously knows what he’s talking about. You, on the other hand, shot your mouth off. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 1999, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/17 "1999-09-24T20:50:00Z")
Yes, the initial two-square pawn move IS European. Gets things going quicker, in our fast-paced Western world. My chess books are at home, but wasn’t it an innovation of the Spaniard Ruy Lopez? * * * Uke ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 1999, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/18 "1999-09-26T23:05:00Z")
Monty, you’re certainly tough on people! Pluto says “Wasn’t chess originally a Persian invention?” and you reply “Persian invention?! Well, yes; that is, if you think India is Persia.” I’m sure Pluto knows the difference - he was just making a helpful suggestion. Similarly I don’t think I’ve “shot my mouth off”. - I complimented John W. Kennedy on his research - I reported that “Shah Jehan (built the Taj Mahal) used 32 virgins as living chess pieces” - that’s got to count for something! * * * ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 1999, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/19 "1999-09-28T02:14:00Z")
Depends on what the shah meant when he shouted “mate!” (I know–terrible pun, but I couldn’t resist any longer.) Glee: my remark about “if you think Persia is in India” is what’s sometimes referred to as “acerbic humour.” The comment addressed to you was concerning your comment about “defninitely not.” ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 1999, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-pieces/3530/20 "1999-09-28T18:06:00Z")
Monty, I liked your last post (that’s also a tune!). Actually Shah Jehan was an expert on mating positions (ho,ho). By saying: ‘It’s not correct to say definitely…’ I didn’t mean ‘It’s definitely incorrect…’ In any case this site has really taught me a lot about accuracy, citing, research and humour - thanks to everyone!!