# Chess position - what do you think? Does White not win (easily)? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 29, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-position-what-do-you-think-does-white-not-win-easily/669935 "2013-09-29T17:37:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-position-what-do-you-think-does-white-not-win-easily/669935/1 "2013-09-29T17:37:44Z")
I learned how to play chess when I was a kid and have not played, at all, in almost 40 years. So, basically, I am a rank amateur who knows the moves but almost nothing beyond. With that as a background, I am hoping you can give me some help with the following position. In particular, I am playing white against the computer and would seem to have an easy win in the offing. Damned if I can find it, though - it seems that no matter what move I make, it leads to black miraculously getting a draw (perpetual check or position repeated X3) or even beating me! Position White - pawns at a2, b3; rook at g4; queen at e4; king at h4 Black - pawns at a5, b4, c5, g7; queen at d6; king at h8 As I said, it looks like an easy win for White but I can’t find it. What would you play in this position, and why? Thanks, I appreciate your help! ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-position-what-do-you-think-does-white-not-win-easily/669935/2 "2013-09-29T17:59:27Z")
Well, I put it to Fritz 12, and it said… [SPOILER]Assuming White moves next, Rg5 The problem appears to be Qh2+; apparently, eventually you end up trading queens, at which point that extra pawn that Black has on your left (files a-c) can be a problem. It’s rated as a slight advantage for White, but it’s not an “easy” win by any means.[/SPOILER] ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-position-what-do-you-think-does-white-not-win-easily/669935/3 "2013-09-29T18:00:56Z")
Kh3 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-position-what-do-you-think-does-white-not-win-easily/669935/4 "2013-09-29T18:38:23Z")
This is quite an original position! Although a rook is a massive advantage, White’s King has no pawn cover, so he can run into a lot of checks. Once you exchange Queens, the win is trivial. **That Don Guy** , I can’t believe that Fritz12 says only a slight advantage after the Queens come off - what is the computer’s main line analysis? **Zeldar** ’s 1. Kh3 is nice, since Black’s check of 1. … Qh6+ loses to 2. Rh4. Meanwhile White is threatening a combination of Rh4 and Qe8 (forcing exchange of Queens or checkmate. My first though was 1. Qf4 (stopping …Qh2) and in reply: 1. … Qd8+ 2. Qg5 (no checks and White threatens mate on g7) 2. … Qe7+ 2. Kh3 (again no checks and Rh4 threatened) P.S. I have an ELO rating of 2250 and teach chess professionally. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-position-what-do-you-think-does-white-not-win-easily/669935/5 "2013-09-29T19:16:42Z")
> [@glee](#): > > **That Don Guy** , I can’t believe that Fritz12 says only a slight advantage after the Queens come off - what is the computer’s main line analysis? My mistake - I misread “±” (clear advantage for White) as “+/-”. After an hour of analysis, the best line doesn’t turn out to include Qh2+ after all: 1. Rg5 Qf6 2. Kh5 Qf7+ 3. Kg4 Qd7+ 4. Kh4 Kg8 5. Rxc5 Qd8+ 6. Kh3 Qd7+ 7. Qf5 Qxf5+ 8. Rxf5 a4 9. ba and from here I don’t see how the white pawn on the a-file can be stopped from promoting. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-position-what-do-you-think-does-white-not-win-easily/669935/6 "2013-09-29T20:30:25Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > My mistake - I misread “±” (clear advantage for White) as “+/-”. > > After an hour of analysis, the best line doesn’t turn out to include Qh2+ after all: > > 1. Rg5 Qf6 > 2. Kh5 Qf7+ > 3. Kg4 Qd7+ > 4. Kh4 Kg8 > 5. Rxc5 Qd8+ > 6. Kh3 Qd7+ > 7. Qf5 Qxf5+ > 8. Rxf5 a4 > 9. ba > and from here I don’t see how the white pawn on the a-file can be stopped from promoting. Thanks for posting that - I was quite nervous about contradicting a computer. :eek: The final position after 9. ba is so won, I’m surprised the computer couldn’t announce mate in about 10 moves… ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-position-what-do-you-think-does-white-not-win-easily/669935/7 "2013-09-29T22:06:06Z")
Thank you all. I am much obliged! I, too, thought that Qf4 was best. But, as I said above, I could not bring it to fruition. In fact, in some variations, I am embarrassed to say that I actually lost! Oh, how I wish all these chess resources existed in my youth! ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-position-what-do-you-think-does-white-not-win-easily/669935/8 "2013-10-01T02:00:39Z")
Chess Tablebases are very impressive. They are constructed by forming a database of every legal position with (say) 5 pieces. Then given any 5 man position, the computer can announce: - whether it’s a win (and if so, how many moves to checkmate) or a draw - what the result of each individual move is However the sheer number of possible positions means they’ve only reached up to 6 man endings so far. So for example, with a simplified version of your position: White Kh4, Qe4, Rg4 Black Kg8, Qd6, pg7 1. Kh3 mates in 16 2. Rf4 (and Rg2) mate in 17 3. Qf4 mates in 20