# Chess Question. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 18, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271 "2008-11-18T13:00:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/21 "2008-11-18T18:09:53Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > If white moves to Ka1, why don’t I just take his rook? (not meaning to be obtuse) Sorry, I wasn’t analysing the original position. I gave three useful positions, which are all drawn, despite White being a pawn down and Black to move. The idea is you now know what to aim for if you reach an ending like this yourself. (Remember, I’m a chess teacher!) From the game position (White Kb2, Rook c3; Black King b5, Rook c4, pawn a4), White can therefore draw in three ways: - exchanging Rooks and moving his King to a1 (the simplest) - exchanging Rooks and moving his King to c1 - keeping Rooks on, but moving his Rook to (say) h1 and his King to a1. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/22 "2008-11-18T20:35:15Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > The OP was right to play on until this point though. I’ve seen the score of the game, and incredibly boneheaded moves could have occurred at any time. This comment tickled me, and I’d love you to elaborate. Did you go through the entire moves of the game, and did you notice any obvious points where I failed to press an advantage? I realise part of my problem is I don’t play with any middle or end game strategy in mind. Does that come mainly with experience, or are there exercises you can do to improve these areas? I want to improve on this tourny showing by getting to the 3rd round in my next one! 🙂 p.s. As for everyone else who has posted, thanks for your comments! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/23 "2008-11-18T20:43:03Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > This comment tickled me, and I’d love you to elaborate. Did you go through the entire moves of the game, and did you notice any obvious points where I failed to press an advantage? I realise part of my problem is I don’t play with any middle or end game strategy in mind. Does that come mainly with experience, or are there exercises you can do to improve these areas? I want to improve on this tourny showing by getting to the 3rd round in my next one! 🙂 I stepped through it and noticed that, amidst all the thud and blunder, White was nearly a whole queen up by move 20 or so. That’s a crushing advantage and should win easily. Later he had an easy win where his pawn was a move from Queening and all he had to do was go ahead, forcing you to give up your Rook for the new Queen, and then he would be a Rook ahead in a pawn ending, which is an easy win if you know what to do (hoover up the spare pawns with your Rook, is plan A). If you’d like a detailed critique I’ll happily oblige. I’m not as good as **glee** but by patzer standards I’m OK. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/24 "2008-11-19T01:55:29Z")
Now that we have that under control Can White win from [this position](http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/bedgyro/ChessPostion.jpg)? (White to move) ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/25 "2008-11-19T14:50:51Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Now that we have that under control > Can White win from [this position](http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/bedgyro/ChessPostion.jpg)? (White to move) That looks like a composed position! :eek: For example: 1. Nd2-c4 threatens Nd6+, but loses to 1. … Rc3+ 2. Kxh4 Rg4+ 3. Kh5 Rh3++ So I would play 1. Nb6-c4 (threatening Nd6+), meeting Rc3+ with f3. That’s just a preliminary statement - I’m off to teach a chess class! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/26 "2008-11-19T15:49:53Z")
> [@glee](#): > > That looks like a composed position! :eek: > … I promise you it isn’t, but I wasn’t playing. Two of my college buddies were playing in the lunch room and I made them wait so I could take a picture of this position with my cell phone. I don’t remember what White did, but it wasn’t moving either knight, and he lost. (No, I didn’t lose to either of these two buddies, why do you ask?) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/27 "2008-11-19T17:58:01Z")
> [@glee](#): > > That looks like a composed position! :eek: > > For example: > > 1. Nd2-c4 threatens Nd6+, but loses to 1. … Rc3+ 2. Kxh4 Rg4+ 3. Kh5 Rh3++ > > So I would play 1. Nb6-c4 (threatening Nd6+), meeting Rc3+ with f3. > > That’s just a preliminary statement - I’m off to teach a chess class! 🙂 I looked at 2. f3 also, but it seems to me that 2…Ke8 leaves everything balanced on a twig. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/28 "2008-11-19T19:04:24Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I looked at 2. f3 also, but it seems to me that 2…Ke8 leaves everything balanced on a twig. 1. Nd6+, when 3. … Kxd7; 4. e8(Q)+ snips off the Rook on g6 next move. Then White has Queen and Knight for Rook and rolls home. So instead Black has to play 3. … Rxd6; 4. Rxd6, Kxe7 and White’s a piece up and Black has no mate threats. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/29 "2008-11-19T22:32:09Z")
> [@glee](#): > > That looks like a composed position! :eek: > > For example: > > 1. Nd2-c4 threatens Nd6+, but loses to 1. … Rc3+ 2. Kxh4 Rg4+ 3. Kh5 Rh3++ > > So I would play 1. Nb6-c4 (threatening Nd6+), meeting Rc3+ with f3. > > That’s just a preliminary statement - I’m off to teach a chess class! 🙂 I’m back - and my original analysis seems to hold up. 🆒 As Malacandra showed, Nd6+ is a strong threat, forcing Black to give up Rook for Knight. (Although Black can then win the e-pawn, White remains a piece up - sufficient to win.) I don’t see what Black can do with his free move before the roof falls in on him. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/30 "2008-11-19T22:42:41Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > 1. Nd6+, when 3. … Kxd7; 4. e8(Q)+ snips off the Rook on g6 next move. Then White has Queen and Knight for Rook and rolls home. So instead Black has to play 3. … Rxd6; 4. Rxd6, Kxe7 and White’s a piece up and Black has no mate threats. :smack: No wonder I never made master. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/31 "2008-11-19T22:52:01Z")
Glee, what is your rating? I don’t think I’ve ever asked. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/32 "2008-11-20T04:48:41Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Glee, what is your rating? I don’t think I’ve ever asked. It’s currently 2269 ELO (my best was 2390). ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/33 "2008-11-20T08:20:28Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I’m back - and my original analysis seems to hold up. 🆒 > > As Malacandra showed, Nd6+ is a strong threat, forcing Black to give up Rook for Knight. (Although Black can then win the e-pawn, White remains a piece up - sufficient to win.) > I don’t see what Black can do with his free move before the roof falls in on him. [del]Doesn’t he get two free moves? 1.Nb6-c4 Rxd2 2.Nxd2 and Rook to maybe g4 at that point?[/del] Never mind; either way he’s still down a piece and 2.Rxd2 works just as well if not better. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/34 "2008-11-20T13:46:56Z")
> [@panamajack](#): > > [del]Doesn’t he get two free moves? 1.Nb6-c4 Rxd2 2.Nxd2 and Rook to maybe g4 at that point?[/del] > > Never mind; either way he’s still down a piece and 2.Rxd2 works just as well if not better. It’s always worth checking variations - -computers have taught us that! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/35 "2008-11-20T14:11:27Z")
I just looked at the OP’s apparently final position, and then expanded it to all moves. My question is, what opening is 1.e4 a5? Is this new since the 1980s? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/36 "2008-11-20T16:39:23Z")
Lib, players rated 1200-odd on GameKnot are rabbits - they may stumble into an opening by accident, but if they play something you don’t recognise, assume it’s a non-opening. Have a look at the rest of the game for confirmation. /disrespect. 🙂 Incidentally, 1. e4 a5? is the right way to write it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/37 "2008-11-20T16:52:05Z")
Malacandra is right to disparage 1 … a5 - it’s just a waste of time, which Black can’t afford in the opening. Amongst the tens of thousands of grandmaster games, you can find one game which started 1. e4 a6. 😕 This was Karpov (Soviet ex-world champion) - Miles (English GM, sadly now passed). Miles wanted to surprise and unsettle the stronger player, so deliberately played a weak move. It worked and he won - but I don’t think he ever played it again! (At least a6 prepared b5 and Bb7; a5 has no point.) ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/38 "2008-11-20T18:00:01Z")
Somebody once played St George’s Defence against me in a skittles game. He reached an OK position, but obviously I handled it better than Karpov did :D. Still, **glee** ’s right that Miles didn’t exactly start a fashion. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/39 "2008-11-22T14:26:48Z")
Well , I’ve learned something. I won’t be playing that 1. \_ a5 move again! I had a feeling there was a good reason why serious chess players pay a lot of attention to opening gambits. 🙂 Any suggestions as to how I might improve my placing in the next tournament I enter, will be much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271/40 "2008-11-22T17:50:19Z")
Have you read Pawn Power in Chess? That’d be a great place to start. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-question/473271.md?page=3)