# Chess rules question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2002, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-rules-question/123424 "2002-08-11T19:13:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-rules-question/123424/1 "2002-08-11T19:13:06Z")
Is there a rule in chess that says that the same arrangement of pieces on the board can’t occur twice in the same game? In other words, could someone potentially create an endgame situation in which the players endlessly kept making the same cyclical sequence of moves? ---
**Author:** ![frazeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@frazeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frazeb)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-rules-question/123424/2 "2002-08-11T19:16:06Z")
It’s not that you can’t have the same board arrangement twice, but yes, if you end up in an endgame situtation where you repeatedly do the same move back and forth, you end up with a Stalemate. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-rules-question/123424/3 "2002-08-11T19:20:08Z")
If you repeat the same position three times, you can claim a draw. But it’s not automatic. You must claim it. If it’s over-the-board, you have to call the director and show him your scoresheet. If it’s on the computer, you just click the “Draw.” I’ve caught a few people on this, who thought in order to claim the draw the same moves must be repeated three times. This is not necessary. The same moves need not be repeated. There can be different moves. All that is necessary is that the same position is repeated three times and you can claim the draw. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-rules-question/123424/4 "2002-08-11T19:22:15Z")
I should add that there once was a rule that in the endgame, if no pawn is moved for 50 moves, the position is a draw. However, computers have demonstrated that some endgame positions need more than 50 moves to win, but are winnable. Hence, this rule no longer obtains. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-rules-question/123424/5 "2002-08-11T22:20:06Z")
What barbitu8 says. Same position three times means a draw is claim-able. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-rules-question/123424/6 "2002-08-12T00:45:08Z")
To correct frazeb’s post, this would be a “draw by repeated position”. Stalemate occurs when you have no legal moves but your king is not in check. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-rules-question/123424/7 "2002-08-12T02:38:27Z")
The 50-move rule was that 50 moves would end the game if it is reversible. Moving a pawn, capturing a piece, castling, etc. aren’t reversible and the count starts over. For cases in which it is theoretically possible to win in 100, 200, 250 moves, those are exceptions to the 50-move rule, but I haven’t ever heard of this coming up in actual tournament play (though it probably has). ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-rules-question/123424/8 "2002-08-12T03:37:40Z")
Just to clarify, the two rules in question are (or used to be): The game is a draw: If the same position is repeated three times **and the same player is to move** , After fifty moves without a pawn moved or a capture made. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-rules-question/123424/9 "2002-08-12T17:13:28Z")
Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2002, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-rules-question/123424/10 "2002-08-19T00:18:03Z")
FIDE rule 10.5: > [@](#): > > The game is drawn, upon a claim by the player having the move, when the same position, for the third time: (a) is about to appear if he first declares to the arbiter his intention of making this move, and writes this move on his scoresheet. [sic] (b) has just appeared, the same player having the move each time. The position is considered the same if pieces of the same kind and color occupy the same squares and if the possible moves of all the pieces are the same, including the right to castle or to take a pawn _en passant_. The position does not have to be consecutive. In the 9th match game, 1962, between Evans and Lombardy, before Evans played 81. Kg1-f2, he summoned Hans Kmoch, the director, and claimed a draw by repetition. Kmoch examined the scoresheet and determined that the same position occurred previously at Move 68 and Move 77, and declared the game a draw.