# Chess training game between glee and NAF1138 - comments etc **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** chess\ **Created:** [January 31, 2020, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289 "2020-01-31T13:26:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/81 "2020-02-24T21:37:12Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Actually I think 21. …Re8 is a good effort. > There are possibilities of a pin on the e-file if Black can play …e5, and the rook is slightly less vulnerable on e8 than f8. > > I agree you are heading for an iceberg\*, but at least you’re steering the ship! > > \*Just a small one, but a pawn ahead is still important.😉 I feel strongly if I got my rooks set up correctly the first time I would be in pretty good shape though. This game is hard. I did finally get your bishop moved though! ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/82 "2020-02-26T10:28:40Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I feel strongly if I got my rooks set up correctly the first time I would be in pretty good shape though. > > This game is hard. > > I did finally get your bishop moved though! As I said earlier in the thread, positioning your rooks is an underestimated skill. I’m pleased you’re finding it hard, because: - you learn more from that sort of game - I’m doing my job as a coach The current position is a fine example of a tense middlegame. With the Kings on opposite sides and most pieces still on the board, both players need to attack. White needs to get b4 going, while Black is looking at …g6. Black also has the option of playing …Nxe5. However those general principles, whilst sound, will not take you very far. This is a position that demands calculation! Here’s one plausible variation: [spoiler] 22. …g6 23. hxg6\* Rxg6 24. g3\*\* Nxe5 25. Qxe5 Qc6 26. b4 Qe4 27. bxc5 Qxe5 28. Nxe5 with the threats of Nxg6, d7+ and c6 wins. - although this lets Black double rooks on the g-file quickly, the Rook on g6 may get exposed (to a White Knight on e5) \*\*trying to save time against Black playing …Nxe5 and …Qc6 - if 24. Rab1 Nxe5 25. Qxe5 Qc6 forces g3 anyway. [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/83 "2020-02-27T04:59:22Z")
This is a position that demands calculation! :smack: Here’s a correction to the ‘one plausible variation’ in my last post: [spoiler] 22. …g6 23. hxg6\* Rxg6 24. g3\*\* Nxe5 25. Nxe5 wins. - although this lets Black double rooks on the g-file quickly, the Rook on g6 may get exposed (to a White Knight on e5) \*\*trying to save time against Black playing …Nxe5 and …Qc6 - if 24. Rab1 Nxe5 25. Qxe5 Qc6 forces g3 anyway. [/spoiler] I was muddling up two variations - 0ne where I play hxg6 and one where I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/84 "2020-03-01T20:08:17Z")
Move 22… Qb7 Does anyone have a better suggestion? All the moves I looked at with my pawns seem to lose faster, and moving my rooks seems pointless. But this seems to be losing also. I took a week and got nowhere. Does anyone have a better idea? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/85 "2020-03-01T23:27:55Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Move 22… Qb7 > > Does anyone have a better suggestion? All the moves I looked at with my pawns seem to lose faster, and moving my rooks seems pointless. But this seems to be losing also. > > I took a week and got nowhere. Does anyone have a better idea? I thought your only likely moves were 22. …g6, 22. …Qb7 and 22. …Nxe5. I felt confident I was better after any of them (though it is a tactical position where timing matters enormously.) When the game is over, we can set a computer loose on this position. N.B. You were correct to take a long time over this critical move. In a face-to-face game, it would be even harder to defend through a combination of time and emotional pressure! ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/86 "2020-03-02T01:23:34Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I thought your only likely moves were 22. …g6, 22. …Qb7 and 22. …Nxe5. > > I felt confident I was better after any of them (though it is a tactical position where timing matters enormously.) > > When the game is over, we can set a computer loose on this position. > > N.B. You were correct to take a long time over this critical move. In a face-to-face game, it would be even harder to defend through a combination of time and emotional pressure! I think I may have taken too much time and ended up over thinking. But taking with the Knight seemed to end in disaster and… g6 seemed to open more trouble than not. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/87 "2020-03-04T08:50:57Z")
I can see why NAF is taking time over his recent moves. White threatens 24. b5, winning a piece with a fork. If 23. …Nd8, 24. b5 Nb8 25. Nxc5 wins. If 23. …Nxe5 24. Qxe5 cxb4 (else c5 falls) 25. axb4 Nxb4 26. Nc5 threatens both Nxb7 and d7+. If 23. …cxb4 24. axb4 Ncxb4 (not 24. …Naxb4 25. Nc5) 25. Rdb1 threatens Rxa6 (winning both Black Knights for a Rook, leaving the Black King practically undefended. So the game could go: 1. …cxb4 2. axb4 Ncxb4 3. Rdb1 g6 4. Rxa6 gxh5 (threatening Qxg2 mate) 5. g3 Qxa6 6. Nxb4 Qb6 7. c5! Qxc5 8. Qa6+ and soon checkmates. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/88 "2020-03-04T12:45:06Z")
Right, but if cxb4 does not happen I leave my knights open to a pawn fork. I’m in trouble. I’m not entirely sure there is a way out. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/89 "2020-03-06T17:19:06Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Right, but if cxb4 does not happen I leave my knights open to a pawn fork. > > I’m in trouble. I’m not entirely sure there is a way out. I’m not sure either - but it’s not worth resigning when there are still some choices. By playing on until the result is clear, you can see if your current evaluation is correct. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/90 "2020-03-08T00:06:45Z")
Ok, I moved. Naxb4 I think the least bad move. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/91 "2020-03-08T01:01:00Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Ok, I moved. Naxb4 I think the least bad move. Sadly this loses to 24. Nc5, threatening both Nxb7 and d7+ (forking King and Rook.) Feel free to take it back! ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/92 "2020-03-08T11:44:38Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Sadly this loses to 24. Nc5, threatening both Nxb7 and d7+ (forking King and Rook.) > > Feel free to take it back! Dang it! Yeah, I will. Um… I’ll come up with something else. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/93 "2020-03-10T12:45:58Z")
Ok, I can’t see an alternative to taking that pawn. Maybe I have tunnel vision. So I’m taking with the other Knight, which also doesn’t seem great but maybe is better. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/94 "2020-03-10T14:51:09Z")
So we are now following my analysis in post 90 above. I don’t think NAF had anything better - and it’s a very difficult position for him, since (apart from the analysis above) White also threatens: 1. Rxb4 Nxb4 2. Nc5 Q moves 3. d7+ forking King and Rook, coming out a piece ahead (for a couple of pawns), with an attack against the Black King. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/95 "2020-03-10T15:03:38Z")
Ok, with 25…Rd8 at least I think I am back to having a single clear option. That d pawn is going to cause me a lot of problems unless I get some of my pieces out of its line of fire. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/96 "2020-03-10T17:46:38Z")
I’m now confident I’m winning. Materially (after 26. … Qxa6 27. Nxb4) Black is roughly level with Rook and pawn for Bishop and Knight. However all the White pieces are active (whereas Black’s Rooks are passive) and White has a mighty pair of passed pawns on the c+d files. Black’s King is in the path of all this (whereas White’s King is in no danger at all.) ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/97 "2020-03-10T18:06:26Z")
I just looked at the position and independently came up with the same line as post #90 - after 27…Qb6 28. c5 Black cannot take the pawn, but doesn’t really have any other attractive options. With the White passed pawns connected, there seems little more Black can do other than delay the inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/98 "2020-03-17T16:13:48Z")
I more or less don’t have an option that doesn’t lose my queen at this point do I? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2020, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/99 "2020-03-18T07:28:16Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I more or less don’t have an option that doesn’t lose my queen at this point do I? Well your King and Queen are in some danger, but you’d have to blunder to lose your Queen. After 26. … Qxa6 27. Nxb4, I would expect either 27. …Qa4 or 27. …Qb7. 1. …Qa3? allows 28. Nc6 (dodgy for Black.) 2. …Qb6?? allows 28. c5! as analysed above. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2020, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289/100 "2020-03-18T14:15:35Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Well your King and Queen are in some danger, but you’d have to blunder to lose your Queen. > > After 26. … Qxa6 27. Nxb4, I would expect either 27. …Qa4 or 27. …Qb7. > > 1. …Qa3? allows 28. Nc6 (dodgy for Black.) > > 2. …Qb6?? allows 28. c5! as analysed above. Hmm, maybe I’m overthinking. Ok. Back to it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chess-training-game-between-glee-and-naf1138-comments-etc/847289.md?page=6)