# Chest full of service ribbons/decorations: how closely are they "read?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 22, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884 "2017-07-22T16:13:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/81 "2017-09-11T03:10:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If someone transfers from one service to another(say, Army to Air Force) can that person wear medals/ribbons from the former service on the current uniform? Yes, you can. In addition, you occasionally have service members who temporarily serve with another branch of the U.S. Armed Forces (like a liaison assignment) who may get an award from the other service. For example, I knew a Navy Medical Service Corps officer who was temporarily assigned to an Army unit, and who received an [Army Commendation Medal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commendation_Medal#Army) that he wore on his Navy uniform. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/82 "2017-09-11T03:52:22Z")
BTW, I came into this thread late, but to address the OP… Similar to what others have said, I can pretty easily read the ribbons for U.S. Navy (and Marine Corps) personnel, as well as the [inter-service awards and decorations](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-service_awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_military) common to all branches of the U.S. military. Someone whose decorations don’t make sense would stand out pretty readily (like a junior service member wearing a decoration or award typically only awarded to more senior personnel). Awards that are out of order would also stand out – note that awards are worn in the order of precedence listed [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_Armed_Forces) from top left to bottom right on a rack of ribbons. BTW, note that for the [awards](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_Armed_Forces#/media/File%3ANavy_Ribbons_and_Badges.jpg) of the Navy Command Master Chief Petty Officer shown in the link from the OP, there are four personal awards in the top two rows – the rest are unit awards, campaign/service medals, and marksmanship awards. My father & grandfather were both in the Army, so I know many of the Army decorations. I don’t know very many USAF decorations at all. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/83 "2017-09-11T04:23:48Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Someone whose decorations don’t make sense would stand out pretty readily (like a junior service member wearing a decoration or award typically only awarded to more senior personnel). Awards that are out of order would also stand out – note that awards are worn in the order of precedence listed [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_Armed_Forces) from top left to bottom right on a rack of ribbons. My father, as a junior officer, served as the Aide De Camp to a General and ended up with some interesting ribbons for his then period in service. First 25 years of service, he got 2.5 rows. Last 10, another 2.5 rows. As he says, when you reach General officer rank, they give it to you for breathing (except he did not say “breathing”). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/84 "2017-09-11T07:48:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > His Rank, he is a _Rav aluf_ (Ra’al) aka Ltn General. > > _Aluf_- Brigadier Generals just have the sword crossed with a wheat sheath. > > I dont doubt there is some significants of the symbolism of a sword crossed with a wheat sheath, but I dont know it. Actually, it’s an olive branch crossed with a sword. The olive branch, naturally, bears a great deal of symbolism in Israel. And it’s sword&branch with two fig leaves: Lieutenant General, sword&branch with one fig leaf: Major General (_Aluf_), and just the sword&branch: Brigadier General (_Tat-Aluf_). Israeli ranks are basically a streamlined mix of the U.S. and Commonwealth systems. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/85 "2017-09-11T12:16:58Z")
Also, different branches have different rules for which decorations can be worn. For the Air Force, you can wear most military ribbons, but any service-specific stuff for other branches goes to the back of the line after the Air Force ribbons. Any civilian ribbons or medals (such as Civil Air Patrol stuff) is typically not allowed at all, and a lot of the other types of decorations like marksmanship badges or shoulder tabs are typically not authorized either. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/86 "2017-09-11T12:24:04Z")
And even without knowing almost anything at all, there’s still some level of detail that can be read. For instance, the honor guard at my father’s burial (in a veterans’ cemetery) both had a large number of decorations, even though they were both very young (in their 20s or so). From their youth, I know they can’t have had very many of the “I was there” medals/ribbons, so they must have been individually awarded. Individually awarded what, I couldn’t say, but a lot of whatever it was. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/87 "2017-09-11T12:34:57Z")
Although, by about four years in, an airman might have been in long enough to pick up service medals for three places (let’s say he started at a nuke base for a Nuclear Deterrence service medal, then went to Korea to get the Overseas Short and Korean Defense Service Medal, then maybe got sent to another base with an associated service medal. If he’s pretty solid, he probably got Achievement Medals for end-of-tour at his first two bases, plus maybe he deployed to pick up something like the Afghanistan Campaign Medal and another Achievement medal (note that additional Achievement Medals on USAF uniforms are denoted by devices on the first award, not multiple ribbons). On the way he got National Defense Service, Air Force Training, GWOT Service, Longevity, and Good Behavior (yes really) as a given. So after four years, he’s got 10 distinct ribbons (plus devices), making for three rows plus an extra ribbon, for presumably being solidly good at whatever he does plus getting a short tour overseas. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/88 "2017-09-11T16:43:47Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Although, by about four years in, an airman might have been in long enough to pick up service medals for three places (let’s say he started at a nuke base for a Nuclear Deterrence service medal, then went to Korea to get the Overseas Short and Korean Defense Service Medal, then maybe got sent to another base with an associated service medal. > > If he’s pretty solid, he probably got Achievement Medals for end-of-tour at his first two bases, plus maybe he deployed to pick up something like the Afghanistan Campaign Medal and another Achievement medal (note that additional Achievement Medals on USAF uniforms are denoted by devices on the first award, not multiple ribbons). On the way he got National Defense Service, Air Force Training, GWOT Service, Longevity, and Good Behavior (yes really) as a given. > > So after four years, he’s got 10 distinct ribbons (plus devices), making for three rows plus an extra ribbon, for presumably being solidly good at whatever he does plus getting a short tour overseas. This presents a good segue for the differing tendencies of the various branches of the U.S. Armed Forces to give out personal awards. The conventional wisdom is that the four branches give out personal awards as follows, from the most reticent to the least: [ul] [li]USMC (most stingy with awards)[/li][li]USN[/li][li]US Army[/li][li]USAF (hands out awards like candy) :rolleyes:[/li][/ul] The USAF, for example, actually gives out an award for completing initial accession training. :rolleyes: The [Air Force Training Ribbon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Training_Ribbon) is held is such low regard by the other services that is actually prohibited on all USN and USCG uniforms worn by former USAF personnel. (Which evidently contradicts my response back in [Post #81](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20470343&postcount=81) – apparently, it is up to each branch of service as to what awards can be worn from other services.) In **Raguleader** ’s example above, his hypothetical junior airman has received two end-of-tour [Air Force Achievement Medals](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_Medal). This would be extremely unusual for a junior enlisted in the USN. The nominally equivalent award, the [Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_Medal) (NAM), would only be awarded to junior enlisted personnel in extraordinary circumstances. (A NAM is instead more commonly awarded to junior officers and senior enlisted personnel.) The wikipedia entry [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_Medal#Chain_of_Command_approval) discusses the reason why: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > From its inception in the early 1960s to 2002, the Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal could not be approved by the commanding officers of ships, submarines, aviation squadron, or shore activities who held the rank of Commander (O-5). Awards for crewmembers had to be submitted to the Commodore or Air Wing Commander or the first appropriate O-6 in the chain of command for approval, who then signed the award and returned it. This led to a dramatically lower awarding rate when compared to similar size units in the Army or Air Force awarding their own achievement medals, especially considering that those services did not establish their respective achievement medals until the 1980s. Similarly, the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal is considered more prestigious and less frequently awarded than the nominally equivalent Army Commendation Medal, which is also noted in the [wikipedia entry](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commendation_Medal#Navy.2C_Marine_Corps.2C_and_Coast_Guard) for the award. Roughly speaking, where USAF and US Army personnel get Achievement Awards, Navy and USMC personnel get letters of citation (no award). Where USAF and US Army personnel get Commendation Awards, Navy and USMC personnel get Achievement Awards. This tends to continue up the precedence list, so you tend to end up with USAF and Army personnel with far more awards than USN and USMC personnel. Human nature being what it is, these differing practices between services leads to Marines scoffing at USAF airmen with their rows and rows of ribbons. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/89 "2017-09-11T18:41:37Z")
I don’t know the uniforms well enough to say, but I don’t think that the honor guards I saw were airmen. Would airmen have been acting as the honor guard at a sailor’s funeral? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/90 "2017-09-11T19:09:48Z")
If that’s who was available to go, could be (an Army vet at our church had a Marine detachment for his funeral last year). I think the Pentagon/DVA tries to send personnel of the same branch as the deceased, though. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/91 "2017-09-11T20:43:53Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > If that’s who was available to go, could be (an Army vet at our church had a Marine detachment for his funeral last year). I think the Pentagon/DVA tries to send personnel of the same branch as the deceased, though. When we buried my Dad [Army was a full colonel when he retired], we had mrAru [full dress whites, it was summer] 2 Marines, 2 Army and one lonely Air Force kid and about 2 dozen dangerous old codgers [some WW2 combat infantry, some Korea era combat infantry and 3 Vietnam era Rangers. Wouldn’t have been a good bunch to surprise by trying to mug them] I know mrAru used to do the whole notification thing, and did the graveside thing a fair amount, Sub Base New London had a territory that was fairly large. I think they actually had like 3 teams for the graveside thing. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/92 "2017-09-11T20:45:40Z")
> [@robby](#): > > I did not think to get a vial of Arctic water. I guess I figured it was pretty much the same as any other seawater, just colder… 🙂 > > I think it was on the deployment the following year (also in the Arctic) that we nearly ran out of food. As food stores dwindled, we started getting meals like chili mac with a side of canned beets. 😉 Finally they pulled us off station and sent us to Norway to pick up stores…which were far superior to what we normally got. It was the first time that the soft-serve ice cream on the boat was actually good, for example. Could have been worse, on the Spadefish they ran out [wonder if it was the same chop?] and popped up near some scientific bunch and hijacked their resupply flight. mrAru said they were even out of peanut butter by that time. Were you there for the Beef ‘Rolaids’ debacle? How bad is a rendition of a standard recipe to get it banned from the boat menu:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/93 "2017-09-11T20:50:07Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Hijack, but what sort of screw-up leads to a modern submarine departing on a mission with insufficient food? Or did your mission just keep getting extended without the shore folks knowing or caring about the developing problem? ROTFLMAO - you assume that officers are competent. How sweet.:rolleyes: There is a sort of process for it all. The senior enlisted in charge more or less works of a standard supply list [he gets to add some special stuff like if the CO like lingonberry jam they might throw a few jars onto the list] then the Chop goes over the paperwork and signs off on it, then passes it up the chain of command and it all gets ordered and the ‘cost’ deducted from the deployment financials. The process sort of fell apart [one cruise mrAru overheard the chop saying that he refused to have men walking on cans … it wasn’t suitable for a fighting ship. _sigh_] So they only had food for 3 months instead of 4. Sucky. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/94 "2017-09-11T20:53:01Z")
> [@robby](#): > > As I recall, it was a planned 6-month deployment, with a port visit scheduled for the half-way point. The Supply Officer (aka “Chop”) therefore only loaded food for 3 months, plus an additional month contingency. Subsequently, due to operational issues, the port visit was repeatedly delayed. So by the 4-month point, supplies started running out. We could have conceivably made it for a few more weeks (with progressively more unappetizing and weird meals), but they brought us in before it got to that point. > > Note that a 4-month supply of food for a fast-attack submarine means filling all of the food supply lockers to the brim, converting both walk-in refrigeration units (“reefers”) to freezer units from the start and packing them full, and stacking hundreds and hundreds of #10 cans of food on every available deck surface in the forward compartment (which are then covered with rubber matting). You then walk on the cans hoping not to whack your head on the overhead. > > In exigent circumstances (which this peacetime mission was not, at least at the outset), we could’ve also loaded food stores in the engine room, which was normally not permitted because it could potentially interfere with operating and maintaining the engine room machinery. (Though we did sneak two large pallets of eggs into one of the lower level engine room compartments.) > > In any event, the Supply Officer still took a bunch of grief for running low on food when we did. mrAru said he was thrilled at that point he had stashed a bunch of geedunk in his rack - as memory serves his normal load out was 6 of the large bags of hard individual wrapped candies, 6 pounds of beef jerkey and 2 boxes of the peanut butter cheesy cracker snacks. I still think he must have slept wrapped in something hanging by his toes vampire fashion in a corner somewhere, I remember going below on the Miami and his rack was full of snacks and spare parts. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/95 "2017-09-11T21:47:57Z")
Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/96 "2017-09-11T23:26:31Z")
> [@robby](#): > > You then walk on the cans hoping not to whack your head on the overhead. Makes life interesting for the guys in the bottom racks, too. > [@robby](#): > > In exigent circumstances (which this peacetime mission was not, at least at the outset), we could’ve also loaded food stores in the engine room, which was normally not permitted because it could potentially interfere with operating and maintaining the engine room machinery. (Though we did sneak two large pallets of eggs into one of the lower level engine room compartments.) I remember helping transfer stores forward from the engine room on of my deployments, though I can’t remember which boat it was. > [@aruvqan](#): > > ROTFLMAO - you assume that officers are competent. How sweet.:rolleyes: :D:D:D;) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/97 "2017-09-12T02:22:33Z")
**aruvqan** , as I recall, **LSLGuy** was an officer himself. **robby** , how did you end up crossing the date line? Crossed under the Ice cap maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/98 "2017-09-12T12:42:11Z")
While the Air Force may give out awards like candy, I will point out that in return, we get the worst uniforms of the whole bunch. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/99 "2017-09-12T12:46:21Z")
At least USAF has done away with the silly airline-pilot lookalike version. Fortunately I was out before that buffoonery had its day in the sun. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884/100 "2017-09-12T14:17:10Z")
Strictly speaking that was RAF style insignia. Since the USAF did follow the RAF blue when it separated from the US Army, insignia were only fair. Now grow a proper moustache, Flight Lieutenant! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chest-full-of-service-ribbons-decorations-how-closely-are-they-read/791884.md?page=6)