# Chicago Lyric 25 or 6 to 4 Proven Drug Reference **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277 "2009-04-24T22:57:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/21 "2015-08-15T03:13:03Z")
Here, have [one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=561678) of the [several](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=67532) other [threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=757739) in which we hashed out that no, this song is not about drugs, it was never about drugs, Chicago doesn’t have any other songs about drugs in their catalog, they’ve maintained for 45 years that it isn’t about drugs, and that nobody, anywhere, ever, has used the phrase “25 or 6 to 4” as a name for a drug. ---
**Author:** ![mgnull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@mgnull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mgnull)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/22 "2015-08-15T03:59:08Z")
as i said it was common knowledge that 25 or 6 to 4 meant dropping out on cid vs working a shift with 6 to 4 being a common shift schedule certainly not about kent state - ridiculous but believe it’s a tune about writing a tune, that’s cool and fine with me but in my opinion lost history and wrong the thing i want to mention though is that thanks to the op i bought the dvd and it’s a very entertaining flick especially to see mr green acres preformance is super sweet but as others have posted: no lsd bottle with the claimed label… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/23 "2015-08-15T04:07:04Z")
> [@mgnull](#): > > as i said > > it was common knowledge that 25 or 6 to 4 meant dropping out on cid vs working a shift with 6 to 4 being a common shift schedule Then it should be trivially easy for you to provide an example of the phrase "25 or 6 to 4’ referring to LSD which predates the song. Or a cite that it was common for people to work 10-hour shifts in the '60s. ---
**Author:** ![mgnull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@mgnull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mgnull)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/24 "2015-08-15T04:38:22Z")
because you are incapable of googling 6 to 4 shift work? and you’ve done acid or not? as i fucking said, from about tenth grade for me in fucking 1980 we all knew this tune was about doing acid or doing a shift and that’s the whole fucking reason I’m bothering to post since googling this and browsing very few results of which this site is close to being around 1oo3 i just want to share what was common knowledge in louisville ky in 1980 among tenth graders here’s a link to shift work hipster. and its not relic from the 60’s but is still used today for folks that are lucky enough to still work in us manufacturing > **[6-4 6-4 6-4 Ten Hour Rotating Shift Schedule | 24/7 Shift Coverage | Business...](https://www.bmscentral.com/learn-employee-scheduling/6-4-6-4-6-4-ten-hour-rotating-shift/)** > > The 6-4 6-4 6-4 Ten Hour Rotating Shift pattern uses 5 teams (crews) and 3 overlapping ten-hour shifts to provide 24/7 coverage. It consists of a 30 day ---
**Author:** ![mgnull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@mgnull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mgnull)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/25 "2015-08-15T05:00:27Z")
i could really give a fuck abou educating spoiled kow it gen y millenials on this but since i do know some supremely cool ones, as ricky said to lucy, 'splain this: Wondering how much I can take Should I try to do some more so how exactly does that make more sense in terms of writing a song versus dropping cid seriously i mean like totally seriously for fucking real!? ---
**Author:** ![mgnull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@mgnull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mgnull)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/26 "2015-08-15T05:07:34Z")
i could really give a fuck about educating spoiled know it all gen y millenials on this but since i do know some supremely cool ones, then on their behalf and as ricky said to lucy, 'splain this: Wondering how much I can take Should I try to do some more so how exactly does that make more sense in terms of writing a song versus dropping cid seriously like you are writing a song about writing a song and you write that you wonder how much you can take of this gruelling task of writing a song and whether or not you should try and _do_ some more rather than _write_ some more because do is a more jamming lyric than write and so forth bs obfuscating bs for something that wasn’t ever a doubt in my hood long before the net ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/27 "2015-08-15T05:09:23Z")
According to Bobby Lamm in the SD article: \*Wanting just to stay awake, wondering how much I can take–How far can he push himself to get the song done? \* _Should I try to do some more?–This is the line that makes many think it’s a drug song. But it is just as easily construed as a frustrated writer wondering if he should try to do some more lyrics/songwriting._ So, who’s right? The song’s writer, or a bunch of tenth graders in Kentucky? I know who my money’s on. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/28 "2015-08-15T05:18:56Z")
Wondering how much (more writing tonight) I can take Should I try to do some more (writing now) seriously i mean like totally seriously for fucking real!? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/29 "2015-08-15T05:35:00Z")
> [@mgnull](#): > > i just want to share what was common knowledge in louisville ky in 1980 among tenth graders Well, clearly, the word of a tenth-grader is much more trustworthy than the word of the people who wrote, arranged, and have been performing the song for half a century. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/30 "2015-08-15T05:54:52Z")
> [@mgnull](#): > > like you are writing a song about writing a song and you write that you wonder how much you can take of this gruelling task of writing a song and whether or not you should try and _do_ some more rather than _write_ some more because do is a more jamming lyric than write and so forth bs obfuscating bs for something that wasn’t ever a doubt in my hood long before the net Yeah, because no one writes songs about writing songs (or having trouble writing songs) Gwen Stefani - “What You Waiting For?” Nora - “Writer’s Block” Killing The Dream - “Writer’s Block” Brand New - “Failure By Design” Jets To Brazil - “I Typed For Miles” Fatlip - “Writer’s Block” seriously Some of these bands even try to fool you into thinking they would write about not being able to write by even naming it “Writer’s Block”. seriously ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/31 "2015-08-15T08:24:21Z")
> [@mgnull](#): > > My take is that this is that this is the one Chicago tune that is undeniably right in the mix with my fav classic rock tunes of the time but that I invariably forget to rank with them. I’m talking about such jams as Gimme Shelter, anything you wanna pick for the mighty zep, Jimi’s jams, the Floyd and the Beatles. > > So why do I continually fail to register this tune alongside? > > It’s Chicago for crying out loud. They were not in that clique and didnt wanna be. But trust me, they were musicians during those years and this song is damn well about an acid trip. > > Lamm is woefully disingenuous to try and deny it with the lame bs about it being about writing a song, but likely he smiles at himself for never having told it any other way > > all of these lyrics are _exactly_ what a trip is like > > you drop the dot or the blotter or a cube > > and within an hour your perception changes exacty as described below > > around 3 am the dose from around 9 pm is wearing out > > but this new perception is magic, you don’t know what to say, you feel like you ought to sleep but you want to cruise on to sunrise and wonder if you ought to do some more > > for many years I never heard that this song being about lsd was even in dispute > > and everyone knew the 25 or 6 to 4 > > referred to dropping out versus working the shift > > but you go douche wad hipsters and think it’s not > > Here are the lyrics per sing 365: > > Waiting for the break of day > Searching for something to say > Flashing lights against the sky > Giving up I close my eyes > Sitting cross-legged on the floor > 25 or 6 to 4 > Staring blindly into space > Getting up to splash my face > Wanting just to stay awake > Wondering how much I can take > Should I try to do some more > 25 or 6 to 4 > Feeling like I ought to sleep > Spinning room is sinking deep > Searching for something to say > Waiting for the break of day > 25 or 6 to 4 > 25 or 6 to 4 Welcome to the SDMB. Who, exactly, is “the mighty zep?” ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/32 "2015-08-15T09:10:23Z")
Led Zeppelin ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/33 "2015-08-15T13:46:38Z")
Thank you, but with respect, I was asking our new friend **mgnull**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mgnull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@mgnull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mgnull)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/34 "2015-08-15T14:05:29Z")
Princhester got it. It was nice to hear Don Henley even use the phrase on the Netflix documentery, although he said, “The Mighty Led Zeppelin” ---
**Author:** ![mgnull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@mgnull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mgnull)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/35 "2015-08-15T14:26:27Z")
sorry for the harsh posts and yes, the word of the songwriter would generally be far more credible than 10th grade hillbillies and my point was not that writing a song about writing a song is unreasonable but that that is not what this song is about zeppelin never admitted to the backward masking of “here’s to my sweet satan” either and I’d love not for it to be true, but when you reverse the track, there it is… ---
**Author:** ![mgnull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@mgnull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mgnull)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/36 "2015-08-15T14:58:16Z")
the song is amazing regardless and even if Lamm is being totally honest rather than just responsibly not feeding into the whole drugs and rock paradigm that doesn’t preclude folks who’ve actually done acid to hear something completely different in the song and it also doesn’t preclude Lamm’s muse from channeling something into the song on top of what he thought he was writing about ---
**Author:** ![mgnull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@mgnull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mgnull)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/37 "2015-08-15T15:19:01Z")
for some odd reason it is only now in 2015 that i learned that Lamm has always claimed this was about writing a song, but Pete sure didn’t execute the phrase as 25 or 6, to 4. no, it’s phrased 25, or 6 to 4. maybe i’m reaching here, yep. definitely reaching, sorry it’s _kinda_ like maybe googling the meaning of Gimme Shelter and finding out that no, it’s not about vietnam and altimont because mick said it was about the barcelona bull runs and points to the lyric, Ooh, see the fire is sweepin’ Our very street today Burns like a red coal carpet Mad bull lost it’s way ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/38 "2015-08-15T15:28:50Z")
> [@mgnull](#): > > and yes, the word of the songwriter would generally be far more credible than 10th grade hillbillies > > but that that is not what this song is about. One of these is NOT like the other. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/39 "2015-08-15T16:19:13Z")
> [@](#): > > sorry for the harsh posts well, OK, but chill can you? don’t be harshing my mellow! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277/40 "2015-08-15T16:27:39Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > well, OK, but chill can you? don’t be harshing my mellow! 😛 I’d be happy if he’s just learn how to use the shift key to make little letters into big letters, as in capitalization. It’s just hard to believe anyone who lacks that talent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-lyric-25-or-6-to-4-proven-drug-reference/494277.md?page=3)