I’m surprised by this verdict. It’s hard to see much from the video, but is the report correct that this guy had been walking around brandishing a knife for an extended period failing to follow police instructions? If that’s the case, what am I missing?
I would definitely have liked it better if he had been convicted of first degree murder, but this is at least some justice. Which is more than what these stories used to bring.
“I was trying to shoot the knife out of his hand.” Yeah, that’s what they train you to do at the Lone Ranger Academy. What an asshole.
I think 2nd degree murder is the correct verdict, and one can only hope that this extremely high profile case will send a strong message.
I merged post #20, 22, and 23 from Great Debates into this thread.
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Oh, I’m confused now. I just reposted my question in GD, because I thought that was a better place for it. Aren’t we supposed to steer clear of deeper discussion of controversial issues in MPSIMS?
Sorry I didn’t see this thread on my search.
The cop was DEFINITELY guilty of something really bad, but I was worried 1st degree might be an overreach. I was glad when I saw that the jury could consider lower charges.
IMO, the cop’s actions were most like some reckless disregard, and serious dereliction of his duty/training. By any interpretation, he fucked up in a stressful situation. And for that, he should be responsible. But to impute malice aforethought sufficient to support 1st degree?
Quite impressive testimony by the cop. “Who ya gonna believe? Me or your own lying eyes?” And fuckin Annie Oakley is trying to shoot the knife out of his hand? If so, he’s a hella bad shot!
I just hope that this is not interpreted as justification by violent reaction by anyone.
And re: the settlement, it boggles my mind how regularly we read about multimillion settlements for police/prosecutorial misconduct. It is amazin gthe City has ANY left to keep the lights on!
Yeah, McDonald was acting wrongly - and he deserved to incur repercussions. But 16 shots was definitely at least a tad excessive.
And yeah, Riemann - I thought this matter was anything other than mindless, pointless…
It wasn’t really a debate, and MPSIMS, in spite of the name, gets a lot of insightful and non-mindless things. This forum is also the appropriate place for breaking news, etc. which I considered this to be of that kind.
Seems like the right result to me. My first emotion was disappointment that it wasn’t first degree, but I realize that I wanted first degree mostly to make up for all the police that get away with murder, not because it was justified in this case.
The message is strong. Black lives do not matter in the least.
Other than the cop being found guilty, the best thing about this is going back to the Omnibus Pit thread to read all the people who think the cop did nothing wrong.
How do you get that message from “guilty of 2nd degree murder”?
Maybe because he still felt he was legally justified with shots 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16? How his fellow officers are OK with him shooting a kid already lying dead in the street?
You want to do an over\under on how many months he will actually be sentenced to? And another of how many he actually does? If he does more than 18 months, I will be AMAZED.
You’re missing the fact that that’s bad but not something to be killed over, if it can be avoided. If the guy with the knife is on an extended pattern of randomly waving and not attacking, then he needs to be charged with putting people in danger and with whatever weapons charge is appropriate.
If your son was randomly waving a knife on the sidewalk near your house, would you immediately shoot to kill? Or would you try to avoid killing him right away, in case something better could be done?
“My son isn’t on drugs” - since when does being on drugs qualify for the death penalty?
I agree, but the flipside was that he would be acquitted. I can tell you that the scene here in Chicago more closely resembles dancing in the streets.
Ok, but the personalization works both ways. What if the police let a guy on PCP wander around brandishing a knife indefinitely, and he eventually killed your child?
I’m not defending the police action here, no doubt it was far too soon to shoot the guy.
But if somebody is walking around a populated area brandishing a knife, failing to follow any instructions, what is correct police protocol?
Hit him with a taser, which was not done.
(I’m not a cop, and I’m not answering about the specific protocol, just the simple sense kind.)
Really? Is that ever a reasonable protocol against somebody armed with a knife? I didn’t think so. Somebody with a knife can kill you very quickly if you get close to them.
De-escalating the situation is the right approach. As long as no one is in immediate danger, there’s no harm in waiting. Keep the area clear of other people and keep trying to establish communication with the person.
I don’t know, ask a cop. They also could have just followed along for a while, maybe talked to him a bit. He was no threat, he was surrounded by cops. One of which is now a convicted felon, a murderer.
Sure, but I’m asking about physical intervention when that just doesn’t work. And what is a reasonable definition of “immediate danger” to the public?
Of course I don’t want the cops just shooting people the first chance they get. But you also can’t just let a guy on PCP wander around a city brandishing a knife. Are non-lethal rounds a suitable option in this scenario, if the cops have them available?