# Chicago public school bans students from bringing lunch **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100 "2011-04-12T16:00:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/1 "2011-04-12T16:00:22Z")
[That’s the word from Little Village Academy in Chicago.](http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2011/04/11/Chicago-school-bans-home-packed-lunches/UPI-96921302542391/) > [@](#): > > A Chicago school’s controversial policy of banning pupils from bringing lunches from home is aimed at encouraging healthy eating, the principal said. > > Elsa Carmona of the kindergarten-through-eighth-grade Little Village Academy said pupils must eat the lunch served in the cafeteria unless they have a medical reason to bring their own food, the Chicago Tribune reported Monday. Assuming that the article is accurate, I disapprove of the school’s policy for several reasons. First of all, in my experience, most school lunches are bad, particularly at the elementary and middle school level. They are neither healthy nor tasty. The ban smacks of the good old diplomatic removal of competition. Second, many children, if given only the option of eating the school lunch, will choose to eat nothing at all. This is bad for their health and will hurt their academics. Third, all the issues surrounding regulation of food always include the pro-regulation side insisting that they don’t want to use outright force, but only to encourage healthy choices. Yet here is an obvious case where that’s not true. I feel that the right to eat freely is being subjected to death by a thousand cuts, of which this is one cut. Fourth, it is a way of introducing children to the idea that the government knows what is best for them and that it’s bad for them to make their own choices. The dangers of shoving that idea onto children at a young age are, to me, self-evident. Fifth, having children pack their own lunches is often a step twoards maturity. They can learn about consequences and the importance of planning. Fail to pack a lunch Tuesday night and the consequence is that you don’t eat on Wednesday. Pack a lousy lunch on Thursday night and the consequence is that you eat a lousy lunch on Friday. With this school’s policy there’s no chance to learn those particular lessons. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/2 "2011-04-12T16:09:54Z")
This sounds like complete bullshit. When I saw the thread title I naturally assumed this was about an elementary school banning students from bringing in food from home because of peanut allergy concerns. Also who does the school think is packing lunch for the youngest students? :dubious: Kindergardeners don’t pack their own lunches, the parents do. Even the older kids are packing things their parents brought. It does sound like whoever has the catering contract is putting pressure on the school. That was a minor issue at my high school (though it never got to the point of banning baged lunches). ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/3 "2011-04-12T16:13:27Z")
I’m not sure why this is getting all this media attention _now_, but it’s worth noting that this policy has been in place for 6 years. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/4 "2011-04-12T16:15:04Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > This sounds like complete bullshit. When I saw the thread title I naturally assumed this was about an elementary school banning students from bringing in food from home because of peanut allergy concerns. Also who does the school think is packing lunch for the youngest students? :dubious: Kindergardeners don’t pack their own lunches, the parents do. Even the older kids are packing things their parents brought. It does sound like whoever has the catering contract is putting pressure on the school. That was a minor issue at my high school (though it never got to the point of banning baged lunches). Then again, friends who are teachers tell me you would NOT believe what some parents think constitutes a good lunch. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/5 "2011-04-12T16:26:31Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Fourth, it is a way of introducing children to the idea that the government knows what is best for them and that it’s bad for them to make their own choices. The dangers of shoving that idea onto children at a young age are, to me, self-evident. No, it isn’t. It’s one lousy public school. Can we hold off on the Glenn Beck bit for now? That said, I agree that this is a really bad idea overall. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/6 "2011-04-12T16:30:39Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Then again, friends who are teachers tell me you would NOT believe what some parents think constitutes a good lunch. No doubt that’s true, but it is still not the school’s business. The bar for intervention needs to be much higher than “Mrs. Jones gives her daughter Twinkies for lunch”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/7 "2011-04-12T16:34:57Z")
It’s all about money. The school gets more funds with each student they feed and that includes breakfast. It’s just a matter of time before they feed them dinner too. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/8 "2011-04-12T16:54:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, it isn’t. It’s one lousy public school. Can we hold off on the Glenn Beck bit for now? > > That said, I agree that this is a really bad idea overall. > [@](#): > > Carmona said she created the policy six years ago after watching students bring “bottles of soda and flaming hot chips” on field trips for their lunch. Although she would not name any other schools that employ such practices, she said it was fairly common. [http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-04-11/news/ct-met-school-lunch-restrictions-041120110410\_1\_lunch-food-provider-public-school](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-04-11/news/ct-met-school-lunch-restrictions-041120110410_1_lunch-food-provider-public-school) I’m sure there are good intentions, but as Magiver points out the school gains fiscally. Meal planning is easier, less waste in the kitchen, more money for the school. The further habituation of children to accept authoritarian control is just gravy. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/9 "2011-04-12T17:03:13Z")
My 6 year old son packs his lunch. Since I keep all the junk food hidden, he’s only left with good choices. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/10 "2011-04-12T17:27:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No doubt that’s true, but it is still not the school’s business. The bar for intervention needs to be much higher than “Mrs. Jones gives her daughter Twinkies for lunch”. > > Regards, > Shodan Agreed. If the teacher has reason to suspect Mrs Jones is abusing her daughter or “loaning her out” to her boyfriend du jure then she should call child protective services. If it doesn’t warrant a call to CPS then the teacher should just wait until the next parent teacher conference or send a note home or mind her own business. Also this school policy applies equally to parents who do send their kids to school with healthy lunches. And how does the school want to go re getting every child to order a school meal? Are they going to force each child to sit at a table in front of a lunch tray and not let them leave until it’s finished? :rolleyes: This vaguely reminds me of my elementary school policy on milk. If you ate school lunch you had to take a carton of milk (only kids with doctor’s notes could get the little carton of OJ). I didn’t like milk so I’d just give mine to another kid or throw it away unopened and get a drink at the water fountain. I did get told not to do that by some of teachers, but only one of them (my 2nd grade teacher, whom Mom disliked for several other reasons) went to the trouble of mentioning at at an (already scheduled) parent-teacher conference. Mom asked her if she had anything better to due like pay more attention to her actual teaching. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/11 "2011-04-12T17:31:10Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > I’m not sure why this is getting all this media attention _now_, but it’s worth noting that this policy has been in place for 6 years. Well then, it has been a lousy policy for 6 years. > [@Shodan](#): > > No doubt that’s true, but it is still not the school’s business. The bar for intervention needs to be much higher than “Mrs. Jones gives her daughter Twinkies for lunch”. > > Regards, > Shodan I completely and absolutely agree. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/12 "2011-04-12T17:32:34Z")
If schools are teaching children to accept authority, I imagine that it’s not lunchtime that is going to be the critical element. I don’t think it’s inherently unreasonable for schools to provide lunches. Plenty of other countries do it- in fact, it may be the [norm](http://whatsforschoollunch.blogspot.com/) around the world. It is certainly in teacher’s interests that their students have had a fulfilling and balanced noon meal. And, objectively, it is good for the student’s health as well. And it is true that students do pack a lot of crap that is unlikely to get them through the day with enough energy- I remember happy lunches of Doritos, little packs of cookies, sodas and a sandwich that I’d cheerfully throw away or trade. And, of course, in every thread about poverty and obesity, the conclusion is that a lot of obesity is coming out of ignorance regarding healthy eating and ingrained habits. Wouldn’t it be a good thing to expose kids to at least one health balanced meal a day? That said, our school lunches suck. There are new [school lunch guidelines](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ConsumerNews/usda-announce-school-lunch-guidelines/story?id=12603193), and maybe those are better. But if the food being served at these school is the same “soggy square pizza, a side of soggy french fries, and a popsicle” that I got in school, that’s a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/13 "2011-04-12T17:41:08Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > [That’s the word from Little Village Academy in Chicago.](http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2011/04/11/Chicago-school-bans-home-packed-lunches/UPI-96921302542391/) > > Assuming that the article is accurate, I disapprove of the school’s policy for several reasons. > > \ You left out the most important thing, methinks. If the students want to bring their lunch, or the parents want them to, it’s none of the school’s business to tell them what is in that lunch. It’s one thing for schools to decide to promote good eating habits by not selling (and thus profiting from) junk food in vending machines, or to hire actual certified nutrititionists to manage their cafeterias, and so forth. That is perfectly fine with me; it’s appropriate. But they do not have the right and should not have the authority to gainsay the parents’ food choices, which is what they are doing here. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/14 "2011-04-12T17:45:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No doubt that’s true, but it is still not the school’s business. The bar for intervention needs to be much higher than “Mrs. Jones gives her daughter Twinkies for lunch”. > > Regards, > Shodan Agreed. I recall when I was a kid how pissed off my mom got when I told her that the lunchroom policy was that I had to eat everything in my lunchbox before I could be excused for recess. She thought they had no business dictating even such terms as those when she had no similar concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/15 "2011-04-12T17:48:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s all about money. The school gets more funds with each student they feed and that includes breakfast. It’s just a matter of time before they feed them dinner too. I’m almost certain you’re wrong on this: I know our school loses money from the cafeteria program every year. Yes, tehre are federal funds that go toward **some** students’ school lunches. But it’s not a profit-driven system for the school. Do you have evidence that some schools make a profit off of lunches? I don’t think this is a good idea, on balance, but I can certainly understand the impulse: it’s pretty hard to watch a kid eat a lunch of candy and cookies and kool-aid and then have a lousy afternoon. I don’t have any such students this year, but I’ve had them in the past. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/16 "2011-04-12T17:54:38Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > That said, our school lunches suck. There are new [school lunch guidelines](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ConsumerNews/usda-announce-school-lunch-guidelines/story?id=12603193), and maybe those are better. But if the food being served at these school is the same “soggy square pizza, a side of soggy french fries, and a popsicle” that I got in school, that’s a problem. I don’t know your exact age, but it’s probably safe to assume that the popsicle has melted. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/17 "2011-04-12T18:00:02Z")
As for the improvement of school lunches, I’ll tell you some things about my school: -Most pork has been replaced by turkey (e.g., turkey corn dogs, turkey ham, etc.) -Nothing’s fried anymore; when fries are served, they’re really bakeds. -Fresh fruit is served almost daily–usually an apple or an orange or a banana. -Bread is whole-wheat. -Our kitchen manager has paired with a chef at a local nationally-known restaurant to add new things to the menu. That said, I still don’t eat the school lunch very often, because it emphasizes canned vegetables, the meat is very low-quality, and the food is generally very bland. (Our kitchen manager made up her own recipe for spaghetti meat sauce that’s actually pretty tasty, but that’s an exception). School lunches, I believe, use commodity products whenever possible, which means very inexpensive, not very high-quality products. Even though our kitchen manager is streets ahead of most kitchen managers, what she gets to work with isn’t nearly as good as the food I’ll bring from home. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/18 "2011-04-12T18:23:26Z")
Looking closer, lunches under the new guidelines seem [pretty good](http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/Comparison%20Chart.pdf), if we can keep them from getting corrupted by subsidized waste food and big agricultural interests again. As for the “money” aspect…yeah? It’s not like that money goes to bonus checks for the prinicipal or anything. That money goes back into the school. It would be a HUGE help for schools to have a consistant lunch budget. That would allow them more flexibility to serve stuff like fresh fruit, rather than frozen crap. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/19 "2011-04-12T18:59:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m almost certain you’re wrong on this: I know our school loses money from the cafeteria program every year. Yes, tehre are federal funds that go toward **some** students’ school lunches. But it’s not a profit-driven system for the school. Do you have evidence that some schools make a profit off of lunches? From the the original article, [http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-04-11/news/ct-met-school-lunch-restrictions-041120110410\_1\_lunch-food-provider-public-school](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-04-11/news/ct-met-school-lunch-restrictions-041120110410_1_lunch-food-provider-public-school) > [@](#): > > \*\* > Any school that bans homemade lunches also puts more money in the pockets of the district’s food provider, Chartwells-Thompson. The federal government pays the district for each free or reduced-price lunch taken, and the caterer receives a set fee from the district per lunch.\*\* > > At Little Village, most students must take the meals served in the cafeteria or go hungry or both. During a recent visit to the school, dozens of students took the lunch but threw most of it in the garbage uneaten. Though CPS has improved the nutritional quality of its meals this year, it also has seen a drop-off in meal participation among students, many of whom say the food tastes bad. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/20 "2011-04-12T19:04:47Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > That said, our school lunches suck. There are new [school lunch guidelines](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ConsumerNews/usda-announce-school-lunch-guidelines/story?id=12603193), and maybe those are better. But if the food being served at these school is the same “soggy square pizza, a side of soggy french fries, and a popsicle” that I got in school, that’s a problem. Boy, that conjures up some not so pleasant memories of the stuff we had in our lunchroom - sauce covered doormats that passed for pizza, burgers that tasted like shredded up tires (and gave you a wicked case of the runs) and burritos that looked like someone had literally taken a dump in them. I usually bought chips and Hostess cakes from the snack bar we had in our cafeteria, because I couldn’t stomach any of most of the other “food.” Given the choice between eating that crap and eating nothing, I’d probably go hungry. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100.md?page=2)