# Chicago public school bans students from bringing lunch **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100 "2011-04-12T16:00:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/41 "2011-04-12T20:51:42Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Well, I don’t think it is a question of rights, really. Can’t say I agree. The government should not be allowed to do things that restrict our liberty simply because it’s within the government’s power, or even if it seems to be in the public’s interest. I want the government to prove that it’s a legitimate use of its power, and that the policy in question will be likely to have the desired effect, and that the loss of liberty is offset by the gain for the public good, every goddamn time. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/42 "2011-04-12T21:01:18Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Can’t say I agree. The government should not be allowed to do things that restrict our liberty simply because it’s within the government’s power, or even if it seems to be in the public’s interest. I want the government to prove that it’s a legitimate use of its power, and that the policy in question will be likely to have the desired effect, and that the loss of liberty is offset by the gain for the public good, every goddamn time. Right, which we do by (1) constitutionalizing certain important liberties and (2) electing (and re-electing and un-electing) representatives to make policy decisions in areas that do not fall into (1). When people say they demand proof over and above the fact that it is not proscribed by a constitutional bar and duly passed by the people’s elected representatives, it is because they have been dissatisfied by a democratically-taken decision and would prefer a society that instead conforms to all of their policy preferences. And so they imagine that the Constitution allows them an end-run around perfectly ordinary regulations. The Constitution does not prohibit passing laws that you don’t like just because you don’t like them. If you think they are unwise, feel free to avail yourself of some First Amendment remedies. But I would ask, in so doing, to dispense with this farce about your right to pack a lunch and just get to the crux of your beef — that is, why it is such a bad idea. This is true for those who argue till they’re blue in the face that Congress should not be able to condition federal funds on state enactment of alcohol limits or those who think school administrators, who report to a body which reports to the elected mayor, cannot pass rules that they don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/43 "2011-04-12T21:27:22Z")
Yeah, shit like this never happened when I was a . . . oh wait. My mother got a reprimanded by my 1st grade teacher for sending me to school with homemade pound cake\*, not for lunch we went home for that, for snack time. I’m 47. CMC fnord! \*I mean it’s not like she [fed me chocolate cake for breakfast](http://www.icomedytv.com/Comedy-Videos/ID/975/Bill-Cosby-Chocolate-cake-with-transcript-0927.aspx)! ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/44 "2011-04-12T21:35:41Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > As **RNATB** points out, this is **one particular school**. It’s irrelevant what “most school lunches” are like. If the school lunches served at this particular school were neither healthy nor tasty, you’d have a point. But I suspect that, if you’re going to institute a policy like this in your school, you’d first make sure that the meals you were serving were halfway decent. [QUOTE=The article in question] At Little Village, most students must take the meals served in the cafeteria or go hungry or both. During a recent visit to the school, dozens of students took the lunch but threw most of it in the garbage uneaten. Though CPS has improved the nutritional quality of its meals this year, it also has seen a drop-off in meal participation among students, many of whom say the food tastes bad. [/QUOTE] [http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-04-11/news/ct-met-school-lunch-restrictions-041120110410\_1\_lunch-food-provider-public-school](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-04-11/news/ct-met-school-lunch-restrictions-041120110410_1_lunch-food-provider-public-school) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/45 "2011-04-12T21:50:54Z")
> [@furt](#): > > [http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-04-11/news/ct-met-school-lunch-restrictions-041120110410\_1\_lunch-food-provider-public-school](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-04-11/news/ct-met-school-lunch-restrictions-041120110410_1_lunch-food-provider-public-school) Ah. I admit, I hadn’t read that article earlier, only the article the OP linked to. Still, I want more information. The kind of thing you quote (students throwing their food away because they say it tastes bad) could indicate anything from spoiled, rotten food to spoiled rotten kids. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/46 "2011-04-12T21:56:35Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Well, I don’t think it is a question of rights, really. For instance, a parent or student does not have the right to opt of out K-12 schooling (if they do wish to withdraw from them, they must show acceptable alternative schooling, either private school or homeschool). So just because there is an area that could be left to one’s conscience, whether it what’s for lunch or attending school, doesn’t necessarily have to be. We don’t allow people to choose the maximum speed that they can drive on the interstate, even though some drivers would be very good a determining an optimal driving speed. Likewise, just because some parents do provide healthful lunches, perhaps even more so than the school’s offering, does not, on its own, prevent the school from making this regulation, if they have the general authority to do so. I think it is about rights, because ultimately the issue is the right for children to be fed adequately, and that means you have to consider that right for all children, not let some go hungry because others have parents who can’t or won’t feed their kids appropriately. > [@](#): > > Of course, none of the above goes to the wisdom of the policy. Undoubtedly there are many approaches the school could take (do nothing, intervene in the case of particular students, impose a blanket policy) and each of these have advantages and disadvantages (a blanket policy is generally easier to enforce and less likely to stigmatize than a more selective approach). > > If this school is like any other public school in the city, they have a parents’ council and other ways of making their views known. As far as I am concerned, this is the kind of policy decision just crying out for local control. And after all, there is a soupçon of hypocrisy in seeing conspiracies to acclimate people to thoroughgoing government oversight while at the same time telling these parents that one way of addressing this problem of unhealthful lunches is right off the table because it offends the ideals of autonomy held by buttinskis on the internet. 😉 ha ha, well, I don’t really consider myself just a buttinski on the internet…I’m a parent who is currently trying to deal with a kid who eats hardly anything, and who very easily could be in the situation of dealing with such a policy. I have no beef with some sort of policy to help kids whose parents think Twinkies are a good lunch. But there are kids like mine in the world…not to mention kids with real developmental or medical issues that would really preclude them from eating school meals. And…yeah, those kids have the right to appropriate healthy lunches too, even if they’re in the minority. We’re talking about kids, here…the well being of each and every child must be considered, it’s not the same as drivers on the freeway. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/47 "2011-04-12T22:01:20Z")
I don’t have a problem with school lunches being an “opt out” system instead of “opt in”. Presumably parents of kids with the worst home-brought lunches won’t opt out just to keep their kids on twinkies and coke, even if they wouldn’t have opted in. But I do have a major problem with this, because parents who want to give their kids much better lunches than the school can provide are not given a way to do so. That’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/48 "2011-04-12T22:05:19Z")
I’m just not all that convinced of the “the government can’t tell my kid what to do!” argument when the institutions we are talking about’s primary reason for existing is…to tell kids what to do. I understand where the argument is coming from, but I don’t really see how lunch is leaps and bounds different than the million other things- from what students wear to when they can go to the bathroom- that schools control. I have a hard time believing many people can object to the improved menu posted. It seems balanced and tasty menu. Does anyone have an concrete, real-life objections to the improved menu? Is it really all that bad? Is there any situation where you would be okay with this? Say, if parents had a chance to vote on menu options, and students got to choose between several healthy options? I’m not convinced I’m for this- I agree that I worry about the fact that school lunchs traditionally have served other interests. But I’m not convinced it’s a bad thing, either. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/49 "2011-04-12T22:18:20Z")
I notice that it specified medical reasons not to eat the provided meal. If you are that serious about feeding your kid what you want, go to a doctor, have him assign you to a nutritionist, and have a prescription food plan set up specifying 7 to 10 different lunches, and 5-8 different snacks, and rotate through them - with copies of the requisite paperwork being sent to the school system to confirm that the sprog is on a medically supervised diet. There you go. Perfect solution, medically prescribed diet, the school has to let the sprog bring it to school and not eat the provided lunches. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/50 "2011-04-12T22:36:18Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I’m just not all that convinced of the “the government can’t tell my kid what to do!” argument when the institutions we are talking about’s primary reason for existing is…to tell kids what to do. I understand where the argument is coming from, but I don’t really see how lunch is leaps and bounds different than the million other things- from what students wear to when they can go to the bathroom- that schools control. > > I have a hard time believing many people can object to the improved menu posted. It seems balanced and tasty menu. Does anyone have an concrete, real-life objections to the improved menu? Is it really all that bad? Is there any situation where you would be okay with this? Say, if parents had a chance to vote on menu options, and students got to choose between several healthy options? > > I’m not convinced I’m for this- I agree that I worry about the fact that school lunchs traditionally have served other interests. But I’m not convinced it’s a bad thing, either. Whether or not I object is beside the point. My daughter is 6, and I’m not sitting there in the cafeteria, encouraging her to eat. I can’t find the link to the menu you’re referring to, but there’s no doubt in my mind that there will be things on it that she won’t eat. If she were 10 or 12, I’d say tough rocks, kid…eat it or go hungry. But she is six. I would raise holy hell if my little kindergartner or first grader couldn’t bring a lunch. You can’t expect a little kid like that to go the whole day without eating, and that’s exactly what would happen for a lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/51 "2011-04-12T22:51:44Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > This doesn’t seem quite as simplistic as most posters here are saying. The bias is that the big bad gummint is always going to provide worse food than parents, and in a lovely Pleasantville fantasy world this would be true. In the real world it isn’t. Some kids would bring better food no doubt, and it is a shame to force them to eat school lunches. But what do you say to the kid getting fatter and fatter because his parents send him to school with crap, or let him pack his own crap? Your obesity has kept us free? Do you want to pay for the healthcare of this person? > We grade homework, maybe we should grade lunches. An F on your lunch gets you a free voucher for a better one. Not practical I know but maybe better than the current algorithm of > It is in people’s best interests to bring a healthy lunch, so they will, and so government shouldn’t get involved. > People don’t bring healthy lunches. > Screw them - they deserve heart disease. The point isn’t so much the lunches the school will provide, it is that it IS NOT THE SCHOOLS job. The government and schools are not, and should not, be the parent of the children. The parents have that job. If there is a problem with the food kids are getting then make a damned PSA. Just because some parents do not feed their kids the healthiest food in the world does not mean that the government, in the form of a school, ought to be put in charge. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/52 "2011-04-12T22:52:15Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > Commie bastards. > > Why doesn’t Michelle Obama go over there for a photo op, seeing how much she is concerned with childhood obesity? Sounds like a type of busybody fascism right up her alley. Damn right. Hitler was a vegetarian, so any healthy eating is a fascist plot. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/53 "2011-04-12T22:58:30Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > The point isn’t so much the lunches the school will provide, it is that it IS NOT THE SCHOOLS job. > > The government and schools are not, and should not, be the parent of the children. The parents have that job. > > If there is a problem with the food kids are getting then make a damned PSA. Just because some parents do not feed their kids the healthiest food in the world does not mean that the government, in the form of a school, ought to be put in charge. > > Slee Unfortunately things like free lunch programs and free breakfast programs have made making sure that kids get adequate nutrition for at least some of the day the schools job. Unfortunate not that the schools are doing it but that the schools seem to have to do it. Giving kids a decent mean is just the next step beyond giving them any meal. Every person posting in this thread would no doubt do a better job of providing a good lunch than the school, which is why I object to a blanket ban on bringing lunch. But there are a lot of people out there would would do a worse job. Should their kids be malnourished for libertarian principles? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/54 "2011-04-12T23:01:07Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > The point isn’t so much the lunches the school will provide, it is that it IS NOT THE SCHOOLS job. > > The government and schools are not, and should not, be the parent of the children. The parents have that job. > > If there is a problem with the food kids are getting then make a damned PSA. Just because some parents do not feed their kids the healthiest food in the world does not mean that the government, in the form of a school, ought to be put in charge. > > Slee Are you saying: (1) This plan is a bad policy and should not be adopted, but the government could adopt it, (although they shouldn’t). (2) This plan is unconstitutional. The government is not allowed to implement it and a parent could go to court and have its implementation enjoined. (3) This plan should be unconstitutional, but erroneously, is not now. We should pass an amendment that would prohibit schools from adopting plans such as these. Also, if your answer is (3), what would your response be if I said, “Suppose, hypothetically, that it were the case the requisite majorities for passing an amendment to the Constitution did not support such an amendment. Then what?” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/55 "2011-04-12T23:01:57Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Those kids will probably continue to get fat. If their parents are giving them crap for lunch, there’s a good chance they’re also giving them crap for breakfast and crap for dinner and crap for snacks. One semi-healthy meal a deal isn’t going to help them get in shape. No, but knowing what a healthy meal is might help them bug their parents for more - and it should be combined with nutrition education, of course. Thaler in “Nudge” talks about how reordering the cafeteria can encourage kids to pick up healthier things. That should be done also. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/56 "2011-04-12T23:07:01Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I notice that it specified medical reasons not to eat the provided meal. If you are that serious about feeding your kid what you want, go to a doctor, have him assign you to a nutritionist, and have a prescription food plan set up specifying 7 to 10 different lunches, and 5-8 different snacks, and rotate through them - with copies of the requisite paperwork being sent to the school system to confirm that the sprog is on a medically supervised diet. > > There you go. Perfect solution, medically prescribed diet, the school has to let the sprog bring it to school and not eat the provided lunches. The problem here is how to let a parent like you continue to send lunches which will be better than the school’s while getting kids without parents like you access to better lunches than they will get from home. I remember my high school lunches as being pretty good, but that was before fast food was invented. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/57 "2011-04-12T23:12:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I will say that that article suffers from two errors that jump out at me: > > 1. If you have a seventh-grader speaking out, it’s not an elementary school. > 2. The Center for Consumer Freedom is a [notorious astroturf organization](http://pollan.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/attacks-on-the-food-police/) to which no responsible journalist will turn for a quote. If you want to find someone critical of the program, turn to the Cato institute or the likes, not this sleazebag bunch of liars. > > But neither of these errors affects the article’s central points. Semantics aside as to the school grouping it’s easy enough to go to a local source such as the [Chicago Tribune](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-04-11/news/ct-met-school-lunch-restrictions-041120110410_1_lunch-food-provider-public-school). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/58 "2011-04-12T23:21:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m almost certain you’re wrong on this: I know our school loses money from the cafeteria program every year. Yes, tehre are federal funds that go toward **some** students’ school lunches. But it’s not a profit-driven system for the school. Do you have evidence that some schools make a profit off of lunches? The article I read talked about the profit angle (the catering company) and I unfairly transferred the concept of profiting from the transaction to the school because they got the federal money. Unless there is a link to the catering company and the principal you’re probably right. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/59 "2011-04-12T23:37:09Z")
Is this some sort of Charter School? The “Academy” in the name makes me think it’s not a standard neighborhood school, but rather somewhere that kids actively opt into over their neighborhood school. If that is the case, I don’t really have a problem with it, in theory. The whole point to charter schools–and other sort of outside-the-neighborhood-system schools-- is supposed to be that they provide a small, controlled environment where all kinds of wacky things can be tried to see if they work. I can see a charter school going for increased uniformity in the day, and the kids there would, one assumes, be parents that agreed with that philosophy. Someone could legitimately feel like a shared meal is more communal and that it adds consistency and structure to the day. I don’t know that I agree, but no one has to attend. On the other hand, if investigation turns up the fact that it’s not pedagogy but good old kick-backs motivating people (in Chicago, of all places?), throw the book at anyone involved. That’s just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/60 "2011-04-13T00:00:39Z")
When I worked for the schools here and now with my daughter in school, I think they are a lot more healthy than the Lunchable with an extra bag of chips or cookies with a canned soda/fake fruit drink I saw every kid bring in last year. I don’t know why the parents did that when it was a Title 1 school all the kids got free lunches and breakfast. For the past two school years the standard is a serving each of fruit, vegetable, meat and a grain product. The fruit may be a popsicle but it will be real fruit and not just fortified juice. The meat may be swimming in gravy or in little pellets on the pizza but it’s still a protein. The vegetable may go in to the trash but it’s still provided unless the child has an allergy. I always liked the school lunch when I worked for the schools, but then I’m not really picky. I don’t mind the soggy cracker crust pizza at all. My favorite is the day before Thanksgiving break when you get that oddly tasty ball of dressing and the tiny cup of cranberry sauce. Good times. But anyway I don’t see what the big deal is. You just have to trust that your child’s school is feeding them properly or get them the hell out of that school. Their best interests should always be first. The schools have lots of rules some of us may not agree with (dress code in my case) but they are school rules. So they have one about lunches? They have one about what color folders they need and the color of their shoes too. Where’s the outrage there? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100.md?page=4)