# Chicago public school bans students from bringing lunch **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100 "2011-04-12T16:00:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/161 "2011-04-17T22:21:59Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > None of which are essential for one’s future, nor every day things. Education is. doesn’t matter, I was asked for examples and I gave them, they exist. > [@](#): > > You claim it’s “for the greater good”, but how? If a child brings their own lunch how does that hurt the other kids? But surely you know how don’t you? If it is permitted for lunches to be brought in you run the risk of unhealthy lunches being brought in. The system suggested seems to tackle that particular problem. > [@](#): > > I had the free lunch usually, but occasionally I’d be able to bring something I liked for my own lunch. How was I harmed? You probably weren’t. I know I could send my children to school with healthy meals and they would not be harmed but…allowing me to do it right allows other parents to do it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/162 "2011-04-17T22:34:25Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Of course, the analogy would suggest that the school should teach about nutrition, not force kids to eat the school’s food. > [@](#): > > Forcing a certain diet is different in kind from forcing a child to learn a certain subject. That’s not to say the school cannot legitimately do it, or shouldn’t. But I think it has to acknowledged that this goes beyond the traditional school model. (Even PE is closer to teaching content than this is, since you actually have to do the movements to learn them.) or that the school should teach English yet not force them to speak it, or teach them about reading but not make them read out load, or teach them about subtraction but not ask them to do it, or teach them about PE but not ask them to take part, or tell them about the required behaviours in school but not expect them to abide by them…etc…etc…etc…I don’t see why food should be ring-fenced from this. The school is only having a say it what the pupils eat for around 15% of their yearly meals. Not really a hardship in my mind. > [@](#): > > What we eat has long been a central issue for human belief systems. Religions go on and on about it. It is a pretty core parental liberty to control what a child eats. As is educating your children but if many pupils were coming to school having had their heads stuffed full of nonsense by their parents then I’d expect the schools version of the facts to take precedent. WhyNot covered it perfectly (and used far less words than me), there is really nothing else to be said. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/163 "2011-04-17T22:53:54Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Of course, the analogy would suggest that the school should teach about nutrition, not force kids to eat the school’s food. Not really. The school chooses the textbooks and curriculum and can bring in any rubbish they like, the school chooses that my child will learn to drive on an automatic transmission (no joke, I’d really rather prefer that he learn on a manual so he knows how to drive ANY car in an emergency, but I don’t get to dictate that to the school). The school (system) dictates which and when vaccines go into his body, when he sees the dentist and eye doctor and pediatrician. Why shouldn’t they mandate, for one meal a day, what food goes into his belly? Seems far less invasive than mandating what goes into his brain or his bloodstream, and I have no problems with that. Besides, they ARE teaching nutrition. Gods, if we have to have one more conversation because my six year old is terrified of dietary fat (her with her \<10% body fat and the pediatrician begging me to fatten her up!), I’m going to scream. They \*are \*teaching nutrition, trust me, and to death. It hasn’t solved the problem. Like I said to \*\*LOHD \*\*a few days ago, I like \*his \*proposal a lot, that they send home a detailed note letting parents know exactly what’s acceptable and what’s not, and if parents can’t follow it, then disallow home lunches for a while. I like that better than what this school is doing. But I do think that, on a practical level, it’s simply adding another three steps, requires more personnel to police the lunch boxes, and most of the kids would end up on mandatory school lunches anyhow. Maybe I’m just a pessimist, but I’ve dealt with trying to get people to change their behavior by asking before, and it rarely goes well. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/164 "2011-04-17T23:03:46Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > doesn’t matter, I was asked for examples and I gave them, they exist. And I explained why they not very relevant. One could cite Venus claiming the sun sometimes rises in the west, but that isn’t very helpful in reference to the Earth. > [@](#): > > But surely you know how don’t you? If it is permitted for lunches to be brought in you run the risk of unhealthy lunches being brought in. The system suggested seems to tackle that particular problem. Isn’t it between the parent and child if the lunch is healthy enough? If you think someone is a bad parent maybe jack booting the lunch line is like trying to cure a brain tumor with aspirin. What if the parent isn’t satisfied with the healthiness of school lunches? **Magiver** , doesn’t seem to be. What if the parent wants the kid to have a special birthday lunch, or some other sentimental reason? Are kids to march lockstep, with no individuality? I’m glad I didn’t go to your school. I would have hated it. I would have resented it, and fought it in every way I could. There are many like me, but I still need to be myself. What if the family has religious dietary reasons? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/165 "2011-04-17T23:44:54Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Like I said to \*\*LOHD \*\*a few days ago, I like \*his \*proposal a lot, that they send home a detailed note letting parents know exactly what’s acceptable and what’s not, and if parents can’t follow it, then disallow home lunches for a while. I like that better than what this school is doing. But I do think that, on a practical level, it’s simply adding another three steps, requires more personnel to police the lunch boxes, and most of the kids would end up on mandatory school lunches anyhow. Maybe I’m just a pessimist, but I’ve dealt with trying to get people to change their behavior by asking before, and it rarely goes well. I phrased mine to avoid creating extra work. I assume some teacher or assistant is with kids during lunchtime, and that person may or may not notice a lunch of Oreos and Hawaiian Punch. If they don’t notice, the kid’s safe with their nasty unhealthy lunch for another day. If the teacher does notice, I’d think there’d be some form letter they can send home with the kid–just pull it from the office’s collection of forms–reminding parents about the policy, with an optional checkbox beside a line that says something like, “Your child may not bring a lunch from home for the next \_\_\_ days.” IOW, enforcement would be at teacher discretion and would take minimal effort. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/166 "2011-04-18T10:30:40Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > What if the parent wants the kid to have a special birthday lunch, or some other sentimental reason? Something wrong with using dinner for that? > [@](#): > > Are kids to march lockstep, with no individuality? I’m glad I didn’t go to your school. I would have hated it. I would have resented it, and fought it in every way I could. There are many like me, but I still need to be myself. Who said my school had this policy? In no way does a lunch policy like this equate to a squashing of individuality. > [@](#): > > What if the family has religious dietary reasons? I already covered that and allowed for it. though I would suggest that, depending on the prevalence of certain religions, the school could allow for that as well. And really, why the Nazi imagery and language? you seem to think that food is different from the other tasks that a school carries out. I don’t think it is. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/167 "2011-04-22T18:40:37Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > …We grade homework, maybe we should grade lunches. An F on your lunch gets you a free voucher for a better one. Not practical I know but maybe better than the current algorithm of > It is in people’s best interests to bring a healthy lunch, so they will, and so government shouldn’t get involved… In Elementary School (Virginia, 1980’s) we were graded on lunch, though the grade was on lunch behavior (e.g. staying in seat, talking quietly, not throwing food) rather than following acceptable dietary guidelines. I think the grade may have gone to the entire class. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/168 "2011-04-22T18:43:20Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > … > > I already covered that and allowed for it. though I would suggest that, depending on the prevalence of certain religions, the school could allow for that as well… Schools tend to bend when it comes to religion. I attended schools that banned hats, but had a religious exemption to the policy, so all the girls who wore headcoverings as part of their religion could do so, and I can recall one boy who wore a turban or similar. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/169 "2011-04-22T21:12:32Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Schools tend to bend when it comes to religion. I attended schools that banned hats, but had a religious exemption to the policy, so all the girls who wore headcoverings as part of their religion could do so, and I can recall one boy who wore a turban or similar. Same thing at my school. There was also one girl in middle school who was exempted from gym class for religious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![jayalphatech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@jayalphatech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayalphatech)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/170 "2011-04-25T11:51:12Z")
apologies if mentioned already. when instituting any kind of prepaid system, quality will always be sacrificed in the name of cost. mandated purchases are almost the result of some nepotism or lobbying to award an above market value contract, with little to no standards or accountability. my college campus required all first year students dorming to purchase a meal plan. the food was terrible, and the costs were higher than eating out at a decent place daily, not to mention the administrative cost tacked on. After first year, only a handful of students remained on the meal plan. Now I understand that making it mandatory allows the food service to exist, but if it was competitive to the rest of the market in cost and quality, it would not need this for its survival. Plus, and this is probably the most important thing, is we should be helping teach parents and children to make informed responsible choices, and allow people to have their occasional cheeseburger and french fries. Enforcing a mandatory menu only reinforces the mentality of just do what you are told,do not think for yourself, the government will take care of you. And this lack of independent thinking is a large factor in the decline of the United States ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/171 "2011-04-25T16:34:22Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > No. It’s not just a matter of _my_ kids. I have an interest in my local public school’s function whether my kid goes there or not–that’s our future society. Everyone has an interest in successful public schools. If school-provided lunches are a cost-effective way to make schools as a whole more successful, then feeding kids _is_ part of the schools’ job, and all citizens (parents or not) should want to see all schools doing it passably well. > > Both liberty and nutrition may be served. Public schools should make decent, healthy school lunches _available_. And they should also _permit_ students to bring their own lunches from home. I’ll bet you’re not a big fan of school uniforms either. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/172 "2011-04-25T16:42:52Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Sure, it does, in words. If I told you that for dinner tonight, I had a broccoli and rice casserole with aged cheddar, steamed carrots and tilapia baked on a bed of leeks, presuming that you like those ingredients, you might say it sounds tasty and balanced. But as it happens, my rice was undercooked when it went into the casserole, the leeks burned and made the tilapia taste all funky and I was out of butter so my carrots were dry. > > What I’m saying is that there’s a long distance between description and execution, especially when you’re working with standard school lunch ingredients and cooking in large batches. > > And honestly [I don’t know what this is on these trays but it doesn’t look tasty](http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2011-04/60805905.jpg) it looks gloppy, lukewarm and at least two parts of it are prepackaged stuff. > > It’s also worth noting, that when I was in school, we got the menu, it was ala carte. If there was a day when the entree was something we didn’t like or couldn’t eat, we could bring an alternative entree and buy the sides, or vice versa. I had then (and now) a strong aversion to tomato sauce, so I brought my lunch on days with pasta lunches. These kids don’t have that option, so on a day when the thing that they really dislike is the main dish what do they do? Go hungry. That’s unacceptable. > > It’s also unacceptable that it seems that only medical reasons can get a child a waiver for homemade meals. I guess that means if you keep kosher or halal or if your family is ethically vegetarian or vegan, you’re SOL. The goal to “protect students from their own unhealthful food choices” is fine, but not when it runs counter to the religious and ethical sensibilities with which the families wish to raise their children. > > Because inner city families are just overwhelmed with multiple options of places where they can send their kids for education. :rolleyes: I am in the inner city and I did have a choice. Do you think we poor people are too stupid to find a school we trust? Last year my family made less than 12k. We live in the second most dangerous part of Memphis. And yes, I had choices. I chose to send my daughter across town to the charter school because I believe in their education ideas. I take her every day despite regular problems with transportation. It’s a good school; much better than the public neighborhood school. I trust their breakfast and lunch program and I’m involved in serving several days a week. I trust their uniform policy despite my disagreement on proper footwear. I trust that they have my daughter’s best interest at heart, and if a parent can’t find that it’s not because they’re inner city, it’s because it’s just not important enough to them. Sixteen years ago I couldn’t find a school I trusted for my oldest, so as poor and inner city as I was, I homeschooled. She’s 21 now and doing just fine. So yes, even inner city parents have choices. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/173 "2011-04-26T06:01:49Z")
I may be wrong, but I thought that Chicago families don’t have the option to send their kids across town. You either go to your neighborhood school or try for one of the few lottery spaces at a magnet school, and hope that politico cronies haven’t taken all the slots for their own kids. You don’t just get to pick a charter school and then send your kid there. Also, for most people, quitting their jobs to homeschool their kids isn’t a feasible choice. Some parents don’t speak enough English to homeschool in the first place. I think it’s an accurate assessment that _in Chicago_, “inner city families are not overwhelmed with multiple options of places where they can send their kids for education”, your experiences in Memphis notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100/174 "2011-04-26T10:53:52Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I may be wrong, but I thought that Chicago families don’t have the option to send their kids across town. Your understanding is essentially correct. Because most of the schools in the district are “failing” NCLB, you have the theoretical option of sending them to a school that’s not in your neighborhood, but in reality, that means trying for one of the selective enrollment or lottery positions in a charter or magnet school (thousands more applicants than seats), or sending them to a different neighborhood’s crappy school (what’s the point of that?), or moving into a neighborhood with a decent school (probably a more expensive place to live). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicago-public-school-bans-students-from-bringing-lunch/578100.md?page=8)