# Chicken. As a mass consumed bird did humans settle on this by chance **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 12, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812 "2017-06-12T22:35:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/21 "2017-06-13T18:40:54Z")
“So help me, I thought turkeys could fly!” -Les Nesman. I assume it was one of the varieties of animals originally domesticated - like horses, cows, dogs, and cats, it won the “domesticate me” sweepstakes somewhere in the world and was the most economical and versatile of the choices. As we see with horses - once an animal proved its usefulness it spread across the world pretty quickly. For a number of reasons others enumerated above, it made for a good choice. To some extent self-feeding while cows or horses needed larger grassland areas, didn’t fly away easily, grew fast, provided regular egg meals until it was time to eat, adapted to a number of environments with proper care, not too big or too small, etc. I’m not a survivalist gourmet, but it seems to me bird meat has a different texture than mammal - where hams of chunks of beef could be preserved, turned into sausage, etc - birds tended to be eaten whole. So having a bird was a treat, as it meant that a large amount of meat would be consumed at once, and it made no sense to kill one that still made eggs. But it’s still cheaper than killing a cow or pig; so a roast chicken or a roast beef was the extravagant Sunday dinner in our tradition. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/22 "2017-06-13T18:53:20Z")
[Here’s](http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-the-chicken-conquered-the-world-87583657/) an article on how Chickens conquered the world. > [@](#): > > The chickens that saved Western civilization were discovered, according to legend, by the side of a road in Greece in the first decade of the fifth century B.C. The Athenian general Themistocles, on his way to confront the invading Persian forces, stopped to watch two cocks fighting and summoned his troops, saying: “Behold, these do not fight for their household gods, for the monuments of their ancestors, for glory, for liberty or the safety of their children, but only because one will not give way to the other.” The tale does not describe what happened to the loser, nor explain why the soldiers found this display of instinctive aggression inspirational rather than pointless and depressing. But history records that the Greeks, thus heartened, went on to repel the invaders, preserving the civilization that today honors those same creatures by breading, frying and dipping them into one’s choice of sauce. The descendants of those roosters might well think—if they were capable of such profound thought—that their ancient forebears have a lot to answer for. > [@](#): > > How did the chicken achieve such cultural and culinary dominance? It is all the more surprising in light of the belief by many archaeologists that chickens were first domesticated not for eating but for cockfighting. Until the advent of large-scale industrial production in the 20th century, the economic and nutritional contribution of chickens was modest. In Guns, Germs, and Steel, Jared Diamond listed chickens among the “small domestic mammals and domestic birds and insects” that have been useful to humanity but unlike the horse or the ox did little—outside of legends—to change the course of history. Nonetheless, the chicken has inspired contributions to culture, art, cuisine, science and religion over the millennia. Chickens were, and still are, a sacred animal in some cultures. The prodigious and ever-watchful hen was a worldwide symbol of nurturance and fertility. Eggs hung in Egyptian temples to ensure a bountiful river flood. The lusty rooster (a.k.a. cock) was a universal signifier of virility—but also, in the ancient Persian faith of Zoroastrianism, a benign spirit that crowed at dawn to herald a turning point in the cosmic struggle between darkness and light. For the Romans, the chicken’s killer app was fortunetelling, especially during wartime. Chickens accompanied Roman armies, and their behavior was carefully observed before battle; a good appetite meant victory was likely. According to the writings of Cicero, when one contingent of birds refused to eat before a sea battle in 249 B.C., an angry consul threw them overboard. History records that he was defeated. > > But one major religious tradition—ironically, the one that gave rise to matzo-ball soup and the Sunday chicken dinner—failed to imbue chickens with much religious significance. The Old Testament passages concerning ritual sacrifice reveal a distinct preference on the part of Yahweh for red meat over poultry. In Leviticus 5:7, a guilt offering of two turtledoves or pigeons is acceptable if the sinner in question is unable to afford a lamb, but in no instance does the Lord request a chicken. Matthew 23:37 contains a passage in which Jesus likens his care for the people of Jerusalem to a hen caring for her brood. This image, had it caught on, could have completely changed the course of Christian iconography, which has been dominated instead by depictions of the Good Shepherd. The rooster plays a small but crucial role in the Gospels in helping to fulfill the prophecy that Peter would deny Jesus “before the cock crows.” (In the ninth century, Pope Nicholas I decreed that a figure of a rooster should be placed atop every church as a reminder of the incident—which is why many churches still have cockerel-shaped weather vanes.) There is no implication that the rooster did anything but mark the passage of the hours, but even this secondhand association with betrayal probably didn’t advance the cause of the chicken in Western culture. In contemporary American usage, the associations of “chicken” are with cowardice, neurotic anxiety (“The sky is falling!”) and ineffectual panic (“running around like a chicken without a head”). > [@](#): > > The domesticated chicken has a genealogy as complicated as the Tudors, stretching back 7,000 to 10,000 years and involving, according to recent research, at least two wild progenitors and possibly more than one event of initial domestication. The earliest fossil bones identified as possibly belonging to chickens appear in sites from northeastern China dating to around 5400 B.C., but the birds’ wild ancestors never lived in those cold, dry plains. So if they really are chicken bones, they must have come from somewhere else, most likely Southeast Asia. The chicken’s wild progenitor is the red junglefowl, Gallus gallus, according to a theory advanced by Charles Darwin and recently confirmed by DNA analysis. The bird’s resemblance to modern chickens is manifest in the male’s red wattles and comb, the spur he uses to fight and his cock-a-doodle-doo mating call. The dun-colored females brood eggs and cluck just like barnyard chickens. In its habitat, which stretches from northeastern India to the Philippines, G. gallus browses on the forest floor for insects, seeds and fruit, and flies up to nest in the trees at night. That’s about as much flying as it can manage, a trait that had obvious appeal to humans seeking to capture and raise it. This would later help endear the chicken to Africans, whose native guinea fowls had an annoying habit of flying off into the forest when the spirit moved them. > [@](#): > > Once chickens were domesticated, cultural contacts, trade, migration and territorial conquest resulted in their introduction, and reintroduction, to different regions around the world over several thousand years. Although inconclusive, evidence suggests that ground zero for the bird’s westward spread may have been the Indus Valley, where the city-states of the Harappan civilization carried on a lively trade with the Middle East more than 4,000 years ago. Archaeologists have recovered chicken bones from Lothal, once a great port on the west coast of India, raising the possibility that the birds could have been carried across to the Arabian Peninsula as cargo or provisions. By 2000 B.C., cuneiform tablets from Mesopotamia refer to “the bird of Meluhha,” the likely place name for the Indus Valley. That may or may not have been a chicken; Professor Piotr Steinkeller, a specialist in ancient Near Eastern texts at Harvard, says that it was certainly “some exotic bird that was unknown to Mesopotamia.” He believes that references to the “royal bird of Meluhha”—a phrase that shows up in texts three centuries later—most likely refer to the chicken. > > Chickens arrived in Egypt some 250 years later, as fighting birds and additions to exotic menageries. Artistic depictions of the bird adorned royal tombs. Yet it would be another 1,000 years before the bird became a popular commodity among ordinary Egyptians. It was in that era that Egyptians mastered the technique of artificial incubation, which freed hens to put their time to better use by laying more eggs. This was no easy matter. Most chicken eggs will hatch in three weeks, but only if the temperature is kept constant at around 99 to 105 degrees Fahrenheit and the relative humidity stays close to 55 percent, increasing in the last few days of incubation. The eggs must also be turned three to five times a day, lest physical deformities result. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/23 "2017-06-13T19:01:47Z")
Why raise birds when you could just go [outside a shoot your dinner](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YQWWHA22YMw/UbapGRMvetI/AAAAAAAAHMs/o9ZH4fcjnv4/s1600/GrandPigeonMatch-Toronto-Ad-1833-Passenger-Pigeons.jpg)? [Plenty to be had.](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--40eHlpZy--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/19c0u2mpn4funjpg.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/24 "2017-06-13T19:17:51Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > “So help me, I thought turkeys could fly!” -Les Nesman. Misattributed. ---
**Author:** ![moldmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@moldmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moldmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/25 "2017-06-13T19:46:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Until the advent of large-scale industrial production in the 20th century, the economic and nutritional contribution of chickens was modest. This doesn’t ring true at all. While they weren’t raised in large flocks, every smallholder, peasant and even many town dwellers would have had at least a few chickens in the backyard. Chickens can be raised in a small space and fed on scraps, a little supplemental grain, and whatever they can scrounge for themselves and they will turn that meager input into eggs & meat. They would have provided a large portion of these people’s protein intake in times when meat was expensive. As mentioned, mainly as eggs but also meat when the hens stopped laying and any young roosters that weren’t destined to be kept as breeding stock. ---
**Author:** ![moldmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@moldmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moldmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/26 "2017-06-13T19:53:32Z")
Forgot to add while it didn’t raise big individual sums of money, surplus egg (& cream) was sold for the farm wives spending money well into the 20th Century. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/27 "2017-06-13T20:02:13Z")
> [@moldmonkey](#): > > Forgot to add while it didn’t raise big individual sums of money, surplus egg (& cream) was sold for the farm wives spending money well into the 20th Century. [Still are doing so.](https://localhens.com/farms/?q=&loc=48167) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/28 "2017-06-14T01:14:36Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Where does the good book say that? Fiddler on the Roof. Some OP somewhere on that… ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/29 "2017-06-14T02:07:28Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The duck market is tiny compared to either chicken or turkey, but it’s gaining popularity in higher-end restaurants. I see roast duck on probably three-quarters of menus in that type of restaurant and duck comfit or duck quesadillas as appetizers are also far more frequent. I love duck so I’m always looking for it and I’d say unquestionably it was much rarer twenty years ago. And probably for a long time before that, but I didn’t eat at good restaurants very much when I was younger. Fifty years ago any high-end restaurant had Long Island duck a l’orange on the menu. Of course that was probably because I came from Long Island, but as a kid it was exciting to see it when we travelled out of the area. Long Island produced around 7.5 million ducks a year in 1960; I don’t know if any duck farms are still operating. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/30 "2017-06-14T02:12:47Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Up until about a hundred years ago most chickens were raised for eggs and not meat. Most chickens were only eaten after their laying time was over. I’d assume roughly half the chickens born in any hatch to become egg layers were male. I don’t think they kept all the males around. I’m sure a 10 to 1 or higher ratio would have been used. So I’d think they either killed a lot of the young males or raised them a bit then ate them. Or am I wrong? Which would have been more efficient? ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/31 "2017-06-14T02:22:20Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > “So help me, I thought turkeys could fly!” -Les Nesman. _“As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly”_ Arthur Carlson General Manager WKRP Radio 1530 AM Cincinnati Ohio PS Dont tell WCKY about the frequency overlap ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/32 "2017-06-14T02:24:17Z")
> [@moldmonkey](#): > > Forgot to add while it didn’t raise big individual sums of money, surplus egg (& cream) was sold for the farm wives spending money well into the 20th Century. You mean into the 21st 😃 Its still done ---
**Author:** ![race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/race_to_the_bottom)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/33 "2017-06-14T02:58:00Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Up until about a hundred years ago most chickens were raised for eggs and not meat. Most chickens were only eaten after their laying time was over. > From a farmer’s perspective chicken are easy to raise because they are small and they roost. This means you do not need alot of room to raise them. Ducks need a nearby water source and do not roost, turkeys are too big and their eggs are not much bigger than a chicken’s. Yes, and chickens will also rustle up some of their own grub when they are outside. They pick up bugs, seeds and grass. They are efficient converters of feed too. They are protein factories. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/34 "2017-06-14T03:18:34Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Chicken eggs are 50-75% as big as a turkey egg but turkeys eat about 3-4 times as much food as a chicken. So chicken is a better value to raise for eggs. Yes, but this includes several hundred years of breeding chickens to produce more eggs. Turkeys are primarily bred for meat; egg-laying is not important to breeders. Modern chickens, in fact, are being bred into divergent groups; egg-laying chickens & meat chickens. (Just as has happened in cattle, with dairy & meat cattle herds. Almost all domesticated animals or crops have been bred for specialized purposes. That’s almost a sure sign of domestication.) ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/35 "2017-06-14T14:13:15Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Where does the good book say that? Well, it doesn’t say that exactly, but somewhere there is something about a chicken. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/36 "2017-06-14T14:50:42Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > I’d assume roughly half the chickens born in any hatch to become egg layers were male. I don’t think they kept all the males around. I’m sure a 10 to 1 or higher ratio would have been used. So I’d think they either killed a lot of the young males or raised them a bit then ate them. Or am I wrong? Which would have been more efficient? Today, the male chicks are tossed into a wood chipper. And growing chickens for meat has advanced [shockingly rapidly](http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/03/post_47.html) in the past few decades. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/37 "2017-06-14T14:58:12Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > I’d assume roughly half the chickens born in any hatch to become egg layers were male. I don’t think they kept all the males around. I’m sure a 10 to 1 or higher ratio would have been used. So I’d think they either killed a lot of the young males or raised them a bit then ate them. Or am I wrong? Which would have been more efficient? No, you don’t keep all the roosters. I’m not sure what the ideal ratio is, but if you keep the young roosters in with the flock, they will not only fight with each other, they’ll fight over the hens, which can injure the hens and which definitely stresses them out, lowering egg production. If you’re trying to grow all the roosters to adulthood, they have to each be caged individually, and they don’t like that, especially if they can hear that there are hens around. They get testy. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/38 "2017-06-14T15:16:17Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > If you’re trying to grow all the roosters to adulthood, they have to each be caged individually, and they don’t like that, especially if they can hear that there are hens around. They get testy. Luckily, there is a lucrative hobby to be had from the recreational venting of those frustrations. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/39 "2017-06-14T18:01:00Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Misattributed. > [@Weisshund](#): > > _“As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly”_ > Arthur Carlson > General Manager > WKRP Radio 1530 AM > Cincinnati Ohio > > PS Dont tell WCKY about the frequency overlap Doh!! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812/40 "2017-06-14T20:16:46Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > The Chinese ate duck. They still eat a lot of duck: that’s where all the ‘down’ comes from, for down-filled coats. > > I don’t know if they “didn’t pass the test”. The same methods that suddenly made chicken economically available to Americans (remember, the reason Herbert Hoover’s campaign team promissed a “chicken in every pot” is that it was a sign of wealth), have also been applied to factory farmed ducks. > > Ducks can’t, I think, actually live in factory-farm conditions, but they kill 'em off at 8 weeks anyway (???) so that doesn’t matter. Ducks require a nearby water source to swim around in, which chickens don’t. This is why they make sense in southern China, since farmers there were flooding their fields anyway to grow rice. (And likewise in other rice growing parts of the world like Madagascar, Vietnam, etc.). IIRC they’re hardier and more disease resistant than chickens, so if you do have water around there’s something to be said for raising ducks. Geese can also live off grass, which chickens can’t, so there would be an advantage to geese as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chicken-as-a-mass-consumed-bird-did-humans-settle-on-this-by-chance/788812.md?page=3)